input on pattern

anyone know what kind of fish this would be good for? i was just messing around and came up with this... tie it, try it, let me know!
Attachment 10234Attachment 10235Attachment 10236Attachment 10237

hook: size 10 nymph

thread: 8 black

tail: parrot wing (not sure what kind my wife brings me wing clipping from the animal hospital)

body: tan marabou

wing: white mallard flank

hackle: badger saddle hackle


it should probably be made on a smaller hook, this one is about 1" long, 1/2" high, bout 3/4" wide.... good size for pictures though! :)

sincerely, (and sorry for not being on lately)
spoof

PS- if this pattern resembles another fly anyone saw somewhere, let me know!!

Go try it on your local fish and let us know how it does. :p

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Originally Posted by spoof85

anyone know what kind of fish this would be good for? !

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Blind, dumb, and starving would be a start.

John, I find your answer to be highly insulting, and totally out of line.

That fly would be very effective on trout, and most panfish. May be our trout here aren't quite as marvelous as yours there, or the insects as grand, but that fly would "fly" here! Nice tye, spoof!

PS. The parrot biot makes incredible flies! Two toned and ruffled. Trouts love them!

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Originally Posted by JohnScott

Blind, dumb, and starving would be a start.

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Was that really necessary?

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Originally Posted by fish4trout

Was that really necessary?

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Guys,

I don't know where your sense of humor is? Misplaced in the cold before you can get to fish perhaps? The question posed was one that always requires the same answer. That is, the subscript line that John has as part of his signature, "The fish are always right."

I take that to mean, the fish are the ultimate arbitors and we can only guess at what will work at any given time and under what conditions. So his humorous answer makes perfect sense and it's your criticism that's uncalled for.

Allan

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Originally Posted by Allan

Guys,

I don't know where your sense of humor is? Misplaced in the cold before you can get to fish perhaps? The question posed was one that always requires the same answer. That is, the subscript line that John has as part of his signature, "The fish are always right."

I take that to mean, the fish are the ultimate arbitors and we can only guess at what will work at any given time and under what conditions. So his humorous answer makes perfect sense and it's your criticism that's uncalled for.

Allan

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I dont have a problem with the signature. His other comment is totally uncalled for. I dont know the OP and I am not sure if he is new or not but if I was new and sombody made a comment like that I would tell him kick rocks (probably something a bit stronger) and never come back. There is a huge difference between constructive critisism and just being a jerk with a snide remark.

fish4trout,

I don't know the OP (as you put it) and don't know the other posters. The OP has had 51 posts so maybe he has a feel for the types of responses. Personally, when I read John Scott's post I thought that he was basically expressing the humorous fact that no one really knows. So, to the OP, try it. Let us know when, under what conditions(water, weather, sun/overcast, etc.), how'd it do, etc., and maybe, just maybe you'll know if, when and why that fly pattern works.

Okay, to comment on the fly itself:

- Hook looks and is described as much too heavy to use for a dry fly, although that seems to be what's tyed.
- Wings look as if they will 'helicopter' and destroy the tippet.
- Tail may not balance the hook bend.
- Body much too large in diameter.

Not that any of my comments matter one iota insofar as fish catching. I'm only giving my own and personal visual impression.

So that's my 'constructive criticism'.

Allan

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Originally Posted by fish4trout

I dont have a problem with the signature. His other comment is totally uncalled for. I dont know the OP and I am not sure if he is new or not but if I was new and sombody made a comment like that and would tell him kick rocks (probably something a bit stronger) and never come back. There is a huge difference between constructive critisism and just being a jerk with a snide remark.

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... the comment was called for. spoof85 asked a question and I gave a candid, honest answer. ( It also occurred to me that he might be looking to change his name to spoof86. You can find a definition of "spoof" in the dictionary. )

In the for what it is worth category, I'm on record on the Bulletin Board a number of times as only fishing for colorblind, nearsighted, dumb and hungry fish. I'm also on record on this Forum as prefering to see flies posted after they have been fished and proven that they will catch fishies.

John

So .... were you spoofing or not, spoof85 ???

No comment on the thrust of these postings. I don't want to offend anyone.
One thing though that John Scott said that I disagree with and don't think I will offend anyone by responding to it. The preference that fly patterns should be "proven" patterns. I don't know about others, but, I for one, tie much more than I am able to fish. Tying is a real hobby for me. I only get to spend about 28 days a year on the stream. I live in Hawaii and it is a LLOOONNNGGG trip to the Henry's Fork from here. So, I can only afford 2 trips each summer.
But, I tie about every day. I study insects (from books, internet, and when I fish). I like to tie experimental patterns and share them with others to get feedback. The internet is a great tool for this sharing of potential new patterns for specific purposes.
So, I intend to continue posting flies that I may not have had the opportunity to test on the stream..............

I'll give John the benefit of the doubt. Its hard to tell what someone means on-line without an emoticon in the post. The reply could be interpreted as tongue in cheek.


Looking at the fly, I don't know what natural it is imitating, but an opportunistic fish could take it as some sort of flying insect. Trout take polypro yarn strike indicators so it would not suppose me if a trout took this fly.


I'm not as certain as Allan on one point. I'm not sure that the fly will helicopter. The wings are not solid, but are of wood duck or mallard flank feather barbules so so they are not a solid airfoil. I say cast it and see if the fly spins.

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Originally Posted by JohnScott

... the comment was called for. spoof85 asked a question and I gave a candid, honest answer. ( It also occurred to me that he might be looking to change his name to spoof86. You can find a definition of "spoof" in the dictionary. )

I could give you my resume, but I'll just say that if you read my Reader's Cast articles, took a look at the dozen or so Fly of the Week articles I've done, and read the 300-400 Fishing Reports I've posted over the past few years, you'd have a pretty good idea who I am.

In the for what it is worth category, I'm on record on the Bulletin Board a number of times as only fishing for colorblind, nearsighted, dumb and hungry fish. I'm also on record on this Forum as prefering to see flies posted after they have been fished and proven that they will catch fishies.

John

So .... were you spoofing or not, spoof85 ???

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I could care less about your resume it is not like your the only one here who has been fishing a while..... It doesnt matter how you justify it, it was a rude comment. The guy makes up his own design, he is obviously excited about it. He takes time to phtograph it and post it...... instead of constructive critisisum you come up with "Blind, dumb, and starving would be a start. " How can you not see that as rude. Around a campfire with buddies, yeah that is funny as hell. For a guy on a message board looking for a little advice that is just rude.

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Originally Posted by fish4trout

...The guy makes up his own design, he is obviously excited about it. He takes time to phtograph it and post it...... instead of constructive critisisum you come up with "Blind, dumb, and starving would be a start. " How can you not see that as rude. Around a campfire with buddies, yeah that is funny as hell. For a guy on a message board looking for a little advice that is just rude.

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... spoof85 wasn't asking for constructive criticism or advice, he says -

"anyone know what kind of fish this would be good for? i was just messing around and came up with this... tie it, try it, let me know!"

If he had asked for constructive criticism, I would have not responded at all or I would have given him some constructive criticism. He asked what kind of fish would the fly be good for. I still think the best chance that fly has is with blind, dumb, and starving fish.

In the meantime, I don't see any responses from you on this thread giving spoof85 any of your ideas about what kind of fish this would be good for, and I don't see you giving him any unsolicited constructive criticism or advice. I am wondering if you have made note of this fly so you can tie some up and give them a go at an early date, kind of like spoof85 asked of the BB members. Maybe you can let us all know how you do with it.

In case spoof85 is not spoofing, my suggestion to him as a relatively new fly fisherman and fly tier, assuming he has an interest in catching fish, is to stick with established patterns or experimental flies based on the study of fish foods, as described by Byron in his post. He may learn / develop some valuable fly tying skills by "messing around" at the vise, but that is a whole different subject.

John

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Originally Posted by JohnScott

... spoof85 wasn't asking for constructive criticism or advice, he says -

"anyone know what kind of fish this would be good for? i was just messing around and came up with this... tie it, try it, let me know!"

If he had asked for constructive criticism, I would have not responded at all or I would have given him some constructive criticism. He asked what kind of fish would the fly be good for. I still think the best chance that fly has is with blind, dumb, and starving fish.

In the meantime, I don't see any responses from you on this thread giving spoof85 any of your ideas about what kind of fish this would be good for, and I don't see you giving him any unsolicited constructive criticism or advice. I am wondering if you have made note of this fly so you can tie some up and give them a go at an early date, kind of like spoof85 asked of the BB members. Maybe you can let us all know how you do with it.

In case spoof85 is not spoofing, my suggestion to him as a relatively new fly fisherman and fly tier, assuming he has an interest in catching fish, is to stick with established patterns or experimental flies based on the study of fish foods, as described by Byron in his post. He may learn / develop some valuable fly tying skills by "messing around" at the vise, but that is a whole different subject.

John

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Your right you dont. I have no idea what kind of fish that fly would be good for so I chose not to respond instead of making rude comments. It is called being an adult.

wow wow wow..... i go to work and leave you guys alone for 14 hours...... lol
to be honest, i took the comment with a smile, i got a laugh out of it..... not offended at all, thanks for having my back though guys lol.....

ps spoof is my nickname that was given to me when i was 10, and it stuck, and i was born in 85.... i was not "spoofing"
pss working 14 hours a day 6 days a week doesnt leave much daylight for me to fish, and the fly is not based on anything... if anything i would say it is more along a variation of a bluegill bomber.... but not at all...

finally, thanks for the input guys, i have about 20 minutes of sunset left.... im going to enjoy it.
spoof85

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Originally Posted by fish4trout

Your right you dont. I have no idea what kind of fish that fly would be good for so I chose not to respond instead of making rude comments. It is called being an adult.

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... I'm sure you are a fine fellow, fish4trout, and it is quite possible you will do well in life considering everyone who offers an honest and candid opinion rude and calling them a jerk. I can only wish you well with that as you go along.

Also, all the best at the vise and on the water.

John

P.S. spoof85 - that is a cool way to put together a BB name. Glad you had a laugh out of my original comment and took no offense, since none was intended. There are a bunch of really talented fly tiers who contribute in a positive way to this Forum. It's a great place to learn so take advantage of them.

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Originally Posted by JohnScott

... I'm sure you are a fine fellow, fish4trout, and it is quite possible you will do well in life considering everyone who offers an honest and candid opinion rude and calling them a jerk. I can only wish you well with that as you go along.

Also, all the best at the vise and on the water.

John

P.S. spoof85 - that is a cool way to put together a BB name. Glad you had a laugh out of my original comment and took no offense, since none was intended. There are a bunch of really talented fly tiers who contribute in a positive way to this Forum. It's a great place to learn so take advantage of them.

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Thank you very much John that is very kind of you to say. I wish you the best as well. May all your fish be blind ,dumb and starving.

John,
Now you have gone too far with that signature phrase of yours. I demand you admit it is wrong. You see, I do catch a lot of trout!!!!LOL

First thing I thought of was that it looks like the Easter Bunny, especially the front-on view; from the top it reminds me of an Irresistible on crystal meth. Second thought was it would be a killer bluegill pattern (although I'd never spend that much time at the vise on a bluegill fly). It would be interesting to hear how many different fish you do catch on it.


Regards,
Scott

Now I'm no expert and have no idea what the Blue Gill Bomber is, but I would guess that it would work for trout as a Bee imitation. I have a friend who fishs bee imitations frequently and does well with them. It is a rather interesting pattern. Maybe some day I will decide to get a picture of a variation of the Adams pattern I have tied on here to get a bit of feedback. Happy FISHING to everyone this Easter weekend.

Brandon

Spoof,

It would certainly take bluegills, and if tied a bit larger it's a decent pattern for smallmouth.

Most trout would eat it, if it's presented properly. Tied small, maybe a 16 or 18, it woulld be an effective nymph in most faster streams. On the really fast pocket water stream I prefer to fish, it would work as tied, but I'd probably add some weight to it.

I really like the tail, and the spread out wings just look 'edible' to my eyes. I'd keep the body as is for 'gills, widen it for bass, and maybe slim it a bit for trout.

I don't carp fish much, but it might do well for them, too.

Keep at it Spoof, you are on the right track. Remember, this is just fly tying. There is no 'right' or 'wrong'. Tie what an how you like.

Doesn't have to look like a bug, or anything else, it just has to look like food to the fish. I think sticking with 'established' patterns is the best way to become mediocre at the bench (which, if you've been here a while, is rather obvious). Experiment, that's how all the 'established' patterns were created in the first place.

Buddy

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Originally Posted by moonlitflies

Now I'm no expert and have no idea what the Blue Gill Bomber is

Brandon

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this is the link to the blue gill bomber http://flyanglersonline.com/flytying...060908fotw.php

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Originally Posted by Buddy Sanders

Spoof,

It would certainly take bluegills, and if tied a bit larger it's a decent pattern for smallmouth.

Most trout would eat it, if it's presented properly. Tied small, maybe a 16 or 18, it woulld be an effective nymph in most faster streams. On the really fast pocket water stream I prefer to fish, it would work as tied, but I'd probably add some weight to it.

I really like the tail, and the spread out wings just look 'edible' to my eyes. I'd keep the body as is for 'gills, widen it for bass, and maybe slim it a bit for trout.

I don't carp fish much, but it might do well for them, too.

Keep at it Spoof, you are on the right track. Remember, this is just fly tying. There is no 'right' or 'wrong'. Tie what an how you like.

Doesn't have to look like a bug, or anything else, it just has to look like food to the fish. I think sticking with 'established' patterns is the best way to become mediocre at the bench (which, if you've been here a while, is rather obvious). Experiment, that's how all the 'established' patterns were created in the first place.

Buddy

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thank you for your input buddy, what would u suggest for adding weight though? wrapping the hook in lead or copper (at least what i have in stock) i think would bulk it up too much...

as for the wings and tail, it is amazing what your fingernail and the back of your scissors can accomplish! lol

thanks again, (and for focusing on the topic) :) no offence anyone...

spoof

:) This has got to be one of the wierdest... weridest... um dumbest... threads I've ever followed from beginning to end! Normally, I quit reading when I see the bickering start but this time I read on and saw the apologies... good going guys! Anyway... I was going to say that every fish I catch is deaf, dumb, blind and starving or it would never be on the end of my line because I don't have the skills to catch a rock much less a fish; I've only been fishing all my life and I normally end up going fishing after a storm and every fish within ten miles has lockjaw. :D But still I must go to prove that I can wade into a river and not drown... ho-hum... ;)

Spoof - I live pretty close to you. After next weekend (opening day), there's a whole bunch of streams within a 15 minute drive of you that are loaded with fish.

Chuck that fly out there - it'll get eaten. Guaranteed. The river is fishing great right now, and it's open to fish by you. It's also low and wadeable right now. Don't miss this opportunity! You're 5 minutes from dry fly heaven in the evening. ;)

ok, took me forever to get this guy on the water, but..... after about 27 large bluegill (nothing under 6") the fly is battered.
i think its safe to say it will catch bluegill all day.
i an gonna call it a bluegill bomber variant, as they hit right after it starts to sink.
i would post pics but im not gonna take my camera out to the stream (or lake) and i do not have a smart phone so i cant take pictures with my cell, sorry
one thing is for sure..... i had one hell of a good time catching natives yesterday, and i hope i do as good today (after i tie up a few "targeted" nymph patterns, my buddy (who just became a member here) went to recast, as he pulled back a 3"er took it hard.... and took flight right into his face, the brook, and my buddy were fine lol)
now to get back out.....
spoof

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Originally Posted by spoof85

ok, took me forever to get this guy on the water, but..... after about 27 large bluegill (nothing under 6") the fly is battered.
i think its safe to say it will catch bluegill all day.
i an gonna call it a bluegill bomber variant, as they hit right after it starts to sink.

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Good to hear the fish approve; had the same experience with Cracklebacks.

Regards,
Scott

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Originally Posted by spoof85

ok, took me forever to get this guy on the water, but..... after about 27 large bluegill (nothing under 6") the fly is battered.
i think its safe to say it will catch bluegill all day....

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Way to go, spoof !!

Don't know much about bluegill, so I do have a question. Are they blind, dumb, and starving ?? You saw that coming, didn't you. :wink:

John

:D im actively chuckling..... and yeah... from a mile away!!!
Scott..... not sure what a crackleback is...
seriously john.... that put a smile on my face...
spoof

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Originally Posted by spoof85

Scott..... not sure what a crackleback is...

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http://www.taneycomotrout.com/howtotiecrackleback.html

Originally tied by Ed Story, late owner of Feather-Craft. Great fly for lots of fishes; I like them in orange, yellow, chartreuse or red Uni-stretch for 'gills but I'd imagine any color would work.

Regards,
Scott

Spoof is in the process of tying another quill Gordon so I'm gonna reply for him lol he thought you were talking about a slang term for a fish not a fly pattern.

(I'm the buddy that took the brook to the face lol)

:D it was worth it lol

I don't normally chime in on stuff like this but, this one hit close to home. I to like to experiment with different patterns, mostly streamers but, I say, have at it and have fun. The worst thing that could happen is you don't catch any fish but, in my opinion any warm water fish will take just about anything so, if you don't catch trout, you will certainly catch other fish.