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Whats the difference? I found some 4 lb test Berkley Vanish Fluorocarbon fishing line with a diameter of .005...the same as my 6x Frog Hair Fluorocarbon. I can get 250 yards of the Berkley for 10.99, but paid 7 bucks for 30 meters of the Frog Hair. Someone please tell there are some properties of the tippet material that makes it different from fluorocarbon fishing line...please.
The tippet material may be more supple than the bulk mono fishing lines, which is beneficial if you are trying to achieve a drag free drift.
Some of the less expensive bulk lines may be less abrasion resistant, be of inconsistent diameter or have other features that may not be desirable. However they may be just find for most applications.
I frequently use the fluorocarbon line for tippet material and I can't tell the difference
The only significant difference is cost.
Seriously Johnny,,, CALL Frog Hair and ask them! Then, let us know what they say. :)
(*hint,,, there is a difference)
I'd say the difference is about 1-2lbs or .002"
I'd check that Vanish spool again. The stated pound test and diameters of the smallest sizes of Berkley Vanish are as follows:
- Vanish 2lb - .006 - Equivalent in diameter to Frog Hair .006 or 5x with a stated breaking strength of 4lbs
- Vanish 4lb - .007 - Equivalent in diameter to Frog Hair .007 or 4x with a stated breaking strength of 5lbs
- Vanish 6lb - .009 - Equivalent in diameter to Frog Hair .009 or 2x with a stated breaking strength of 8lbs
So based on this comparison Vanish 4lb is equal to Frog Hair 4X, not 6X but is one pound weaker.
- Vanish 8lb - .010 - Equivalent in diameter to Frog Hair .010 or 1x with a stated breaking strength of 10lbs
This comparison is asked about lot and the results are always the same. If you believe stated strength and diameter measurements; tippet material is always stronger for the same diameter than fishing line. It is also more supple in most cases.
Whether or not that matters for the type of fishing you do is up to you but the bottom line is, the similarity ends when you compare diameters to strength.
I used a spool of Berkley Vanish and found it to be inconsistent in both strength and diameter. Sometimes it would work fine the next time it would constantly break off. I will not use anything but tippet material, but, if you can't tell the difference and have confidence in the bulk material, by all means, use it.
Bamboozle, I was making my .005 comparison based on what is listed on the Bass Pro Shop website.
http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/st...ems#itemDetail. On that website it lists Berkley Vanish 4lb as .005 in diameter. However on Dick's Sporting goods, its listed at .007, MC Sports listed as .007, as well as others listed it at .007. This in and of itself makes me question the consistency or accuracy of the listed diameters on fluorocarbon fishing lines.
I'm using flourocarbon tippets almost all the time - even for dries. It seems that most of the pro bass anglers have gone to flouro. They fish for a living. They must know something.
Randy
Johnny:
Bass Pro just made a mistake. I got my info from Berkley and as you already discovered, other websites have the diameters correct. You won't see any inconsistency on the Berkley packaging and that 's what matters most.
While taking ALL tippet & line manufacturers stated diameters and strength with a grain of salt is a good idea; with fishing line it really doesn't matter as much as it does with tippet, especially in the small diameters.
For the record I'm a big Berkley fan for my non-flyfishing and while I never used Vanish as leader material; it is my line of choice on most of my baitcasters and is great stuff!!
;)
The benefits of flourocarbon lines/tippets are twofold.
First, the material, due to it's 'refractive index' is supposed to be invisible underwater. The concept is that it 'refracts light' the same as water does, so it blends in and can't be detected against the water.
Second, the material is denser than regular monofilament and thus sinks faster. Makes it nice for subsurface techniques, but beware of this if you fish with dry flies a lot. It doesn't 'float', so you will have to rely on surface tension to hold it up....applying floatant to it kills the whole 'invisible' thing, but for dries it probably doesn't matter....if they don't care about that little line made by the surface of the water to the line interface, then they don't care....
Another minor benefit is that it doesn't degrade in sunlight or heat like mono does.
So, while I agree that the tippet stuff is a 'different' formula and is stronger for a given diameter than flourocatrbon 'line', I do question whether or not it matters.
If you would normally use 4x 'mono', then the idea behind flouro is that you could use 3x or even 2x flouro in it's place, since it's 'invisible'. It lets you use a 'stronger' or 'thicker' tippet without it being visible to the fish.
If you use 6# breaking strength flourocabon line in place of 4x tippet, then it's pretty much a wash. Sure it's 'thicker' but it's also 'invisble'.
If all you want is thinner and stronger and you are willing to pay for it, then by all means use the flourocarbon tippet material. Also, not all flourocarbon tippet is equal. Some 'tippet' brands list significant difference in diameter to breaking strength ratios compared to other brands. Make sure to look carefully before making a purchase.
But there is no reason not to use flourocarbon line either, as long as you don't mind a bit of extra 'diameter' to get to a given breaking strength. Since it's 'invisible', it won't matter to the fish, they can't see it.
I've found that I can get away with 8 pound flourocarbon 'line' (I'm using a Cabela's house brand stuff) as a level leader behind my sinking line while streamer fishing for trout in stillwater. 8 pound line is plenty heavy enough for even the largest trout I'll face and it saves me from breaking off too many flies. It gives me some chance at the occasional large pike that happens along as well. The fish don't seem to mind it a bit, since it's 'invisible', they can't see it. We catch almost an obscene number of trout each summer.
I'm using a long section of 4 pound 'Vanish' as a tippet for deep chronimid fishing, and again, the fish don't seem to care a bit. Sure, it's thicker than 5x flouro, but it's invisible, so why does it matter?
For subsurface bass fishing in our clear water lakes, I use the same 8 pound flouro line for a tippet. The bass don't care, since they can't see it. Still catch a lot of them.
I have a lot of the Frog hair and Rio flouro tippet that I use for streams and rivers like the San Juan and the Animas. It's 'thinner' so it gets down faster in the current.
Good Luck!
Buddy
I use Vanish for my furled leaders....so just now looked at the actual spool ...
4# Vanish...spool says...".007" avg. dia."......hhhmmmm note the "avg"....to me that means variable.
and 2# says...".006 avg. dia."
That has been my experience. I used 8# Vanish for a season for smallies in place of 3x flouro tippet. Sometimes if would work fine, other times not so fine. So I switched back to flouro. But, I have just about come around full circle and will probably go back to mono once I run out of fluoro. For most of the fishing I do I can't tell a difference. However, I still like to use fluoro when fishing nymphs for trout.Quote:
Originally Posted by dunfly
Dave
When I use flourocarbon, (less these days than before) I use Vanish...whether it be tippet or leader. Reason? Price. I have tried some of the others and they may be a tad more supple but they didn't improve on my catch rate beyond what i was getting with the Vanish. So why pay more money? I buy in bulk!
Aw jeeze, just can't keep my snoot outta this any longer. I fish a lot for salmon, while wading in the edge of the Pacific ocean. We all use a fly the represents a herring/minnow kind of, a coupleof inches long, maybe a size 6 hook. When I switched to fluorocarbon,,, I AM CERTAIN,,, my rate of hits doubled. It may all be BS,,, but I am convinced that the fish took my fly more readily when I used it. :)
I noticed the same thing JC. I use it for all my steelhead fishing and it does make a difference perticularly in clear water. It also helps sink the flies a little easier.Quote:
Originally Posted by J Castwell
I've also had the same problems with the Vanish, as many others have had. One day it works fine, the next it constantly breaks.
I know you guys won't want to hear about my exploits with my baitcaster, Vanish & 7" Senkos but when I switched from 17lb test mono to 17lb test fluoro my catch rates on LMB went up too!
I also use fluoro exclusively for my fly fishing tippets too. I especially like it for dry flies since I'm convinced a tippet UNDER the surface is less visible to the fish. And NO a subsurface tippet doesn't pull my dry flies under.
I have used Vanish for steelhead for the last six years or so and have had no problems with breaking strength. I have also had no more problem than I did with the high end fluoro tippet in getting my knots to set properly. I do find as a general rule for me at least, that fluoro is a little harder to tie good knots than mono. I buy the Vanish in 100 yard "pony" spools which is a very handy size.
Glenn
I fish warm water, mainly for panfish. Beginning in mid summer I started carrying #2 vanish to use as a tippet material, along with the #2 and #4 mono that I normally carry as tippet material. Since I started using vanish I have notice that my strikes increased dramatically. To date, I have not had any problems with breakage or inconsistency. As a matter of fact, the vanish seems to be less fragile than the #2 mono. My largest fish to date using the vanish was a 19" Largemouth Bass. As far as the fish being able to see the line, I have personally witnessed large gills refuse a fly fished on a #2 mono tippet, that struck the same fly presented in the same manner with a vanish tippet.
Another issue that was mentioned was that people were having trouble with the vanish breaking. I was having some trouble breaking the #6 floro that I use on some of my spinning rods. Most frequently, I would break the line when I set the hook on a fish. What I had not taken into account was that the floro has MUCH less stretch than regular mono. I was using my normal spinning setup fishing for bass with small plastic worms, and the shock of the hookset was causing the line to snap. I switched to a rod with a much softer tip, used a lighter hookset, and I haven't had a problem with breaking lines since. When I began using floro tippet for my fly fishing I was mindful of my previous experiences and decided to use a standard (read stretchy) mono furled leader along with the floro tippet. The stretchy leader protects the tippet from both the hookset and the surging runs of larger fish.
Fish
They know they get paid to use it.............Quote:
Originally Posted by randyflycaster
I have been using regular Fluoro for years. First off I prefer P-Line or Seaguar, I did find Vanish to be to inconstant, plus some Vanish is only COATED...and you do have to look close (not sure the advantages of a fluoro coating, but what the heck).
I do use Fluoro Tippet from time to time but, I don't see any advantage. I buy the regular Fluoro because of the price. Guiding, it can get expensive.
I use it because for diameter it is stronger than equal Mono, however, regular fluoro is a bigger diameter lb for lb than tippet, but not enough to make a difference. Yes I can thread 2 lb fluoro through a #32.
Another reason I ONLY use it is I am CONFIDENT it makes a difference and that CONFIDENCE works for me and I think the is the key to being more successful in fishing.
I use my own Furled Leaders made from Berkley Vanish Transition in 4lb test. I was not aware that some Vanish was fluorocarbon coated. Since I only use the Transition Vanish and have never looked at the clear Vanish, could explain why I never noticed that some Vanish is coated. I have looked at P-Line and some of it is fluorocarbon coated. For tippet material I use either 4lb or 6lb test clear mono made by Ande and have never had any problems with it. I guess everyone should use whatever they have confidence in and enjoy themselves. That's what I do!;)
Wow! Your furls must be MIGHTY! LOL
I read about allot of people making furls out of 4 lb and 6 lb so I tried one....those things are HUGE! The don't seem to turn over as smooth as the thread ones
I do make one out of mono, but it is at the MOST 2lb, but my favorite is UNI 4 m MONO. I have landed some big guns on the Uni 6/0 thread also.
Fly Goddess,
If I was a dry fly/midge fly fisherman, I would probably use the thread or the Coats & Clark 100% Nylon in .005, but, 99% of my fly fishing is with buggers, streamers, flymphs, wets and 100% of my fly fishing is in rivers with current. I find that the Berkley Vanish Transition in 4lb test is the ONLY material that will get my flies down to where the fish are quickly. All other material will sink but no way near as quickly as Transition Vanish. I never use a strike indicator and do a lot of mending to get the fly down. I never use any weight except for the weight I put in my flies in the form of tungsten beads or weight wrapped on the hook shank under the body material. My Furled Leaders are 5' 8" long and I attach 5 to 6 feet of tippet. This has worked great for me but you mileage may differ.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarrenP
That makes sense, but they still got to be huge LOL I fish the currents also in like the Snake and the Provo, weber. I put ONE STRAND of Kevlar Thread then make the normal leader in 5', 5 1/2' and 6' ( with the 5 1/2' being most popular). The Kevlar not only makes them strong as heck, but they sink very well and are still light a limp.
Sounds like yours works for you so, please don't take this as nothing more than another thought.
If I could find Berkley Transition Vanish in 2lb test, that would be the material I would use for my Furled Leaders, but, 4lb test is the smallest I have ever seen in their Transition. Now they do make their regular clear Vanish in 2lb test, but, it does not seem to sink as quickly as Transition. I may have to find another material because our local Wally World seems to have quit carrying Transition which makes me wonder if Berkley has discontinued their Transition flurorcarbon. I sure hope not.
Well, you know when you find it to stock up!:cool:
Warren, I may have asked you or Jack this before but I'd like to ask anyone out there that uses Transition if they have noticed this .
I do mostly stillwater so this seems important to me....
When I used Transition I noticed in clear water on a sunny day that it could be seen very golden down as far as three feet...maybe more...so I switched to "plain" Vanish....much of my fishing can be just under the surface.
I cannot respond to that question because I only use it in my Furled Leaders and once fluorocarbon has been furled, it looses its properties to vanish under water.
I started using Berkly Vanish fluorocarbon as tippet material this year and noticed a an increase in action for subsurface patterns on bluegills. The bass didn't seam to care but the floro did get my flies down quicker. I've never purchased commercial tippet spools, I have a lifetime supply of tippet material left over from spin/baitcasting so why bother??
Wayneb