Casting. Important?

Gentlemen:
This is a RHETORICAL QUESTION.Concerning the current availability of this device, just how good of a caster must one be to get a fly out to a car tire size spot 40 feet away? Is there anyone on this forum that can't do that?? I'm curious as to what weight (percent of total effort) the members here put on casting (other than spey and surf casting).In my own personal experience, I don't even think I'm aware of an "effort". My distances seldom exceed 40' but I probably can throw it 70' . Just how much better need or can I get at that distance. I have never had a lesson. Should I?? What should be my expectations? When someone on this board states that they're not a good caster what does that mean. What is a good caster?? Am I a "good" caster??
Mark



------------------
I'd rather be in Wyoming!




[This message has been edited by Marco (edited 05 September 2005).]

I think casting, in practical application (fishing), is a continual desire for improvement. Mostly because of elements not in our control, such as wind and stuff.
However much of the desire to improve may be caused by our own laziness. I know mine is. If I weren't so lazy, I could take a few steps and not have to try to toss further than I could possibly set the hook in that LM anyway. Of course the wind will probably blow us off target if we can reach'im, so.......?
And if we could just toss a wee bit further, we could get a couple more strips or reach that other seam while "blind" fishing for stripers.
"Good" may be someone else's opinion. "GOOD enough" may be our own opinion......and the IMPORTANT opinion. http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bb/smile.gif
.....lee s.

Hey JC;
I thought you and the lovely and talented mate was "away". Was compozin a sure to be " tread closer" but now I guess I gotta wait.

Hitting that target is just the beginning. One should be able to hit that car tire or dinner plate sized circle with a left and right reach, a left and right curve, varying amounts of slack in the leader, etc. I surely can't say that I can do that all the time but it's what I practice.

Bob

------------------
"Man has an inexhaustible ability to beshit his environment, with politicians well in the lead"...Jim Harrison

Depends on the type water and fish that one most commonly subscribes too. On technical rivers with very spooky trout: The many different types of casts and their accuracy are not important; "they and it are crucial!"

------------------
Best Regards

"I'm the best flycaster that ever took up a stick and string!"
(*choke* - *sputter* - *cough*) I've never heard it and I'll surely never say it. I'm fairly good at hitting where I aim to, but add some wind, waves, & woods and all that changes. I think that's why casting can be competitive - there are going to be many variables besides the size of the spot your trying to hit.
It could be fun to do this at the next pic-nic or bar-b-que with the family. Not so much to show how 'good' we are, but how fun it is!

------------------
There's almost nothin' wrong with the first lie, it's the weight of all the others holdin' it up that gets ya'! - Tim

[This message has been edited by MOturkE (edited 05 September 2005).]

Marco - I started flyfishing in 1968, which is getting to be a long time ago. At the time, I did not know any other flyfishers and there were not any flyshops near me. I bought my first outfit from an Army and Navy store. They also sold me a 50 cent pamphlet from Sci Anglers on how to cast. That's how I learned, in my backyard, pamphlet in one hand, rod in the other. I didn't know diddley, but I loved it. I learned where the fish lived in the stream. Some kind person sold me a copy of Art Flick's streamside guide, and I learned about fly selection. Casting? I learned to put the fly wherever I wanted. Was I a good caster? No way. I just got really good at doing it wrong.
That lasted about 10 years, when several things happened to make me realize that there was something more to casting, and that I was going to hurt myself if I did not learn it. The basic impetus was taking up saltwater fishing, where long casts with heavy rods is the order of the day.
So I did some reading, took some seminars with experts, and managed to transform myself from a hacker to a reasonable caster. Eventually, I started teaching.
Fly casting is easy, but it is not intuitive. Most people listen to the instructions, and then do it wrong. That's the bad news. The good news is that virtually everyone can be coached into doing it right very quickly.
The basic advantages of doing it right are an extreme decrease in the amount of effort needed to make a given cast, and an increase in accuracy. The ability to fish in foul conditions is also greatly augmented.
Marco, I would never comment on your casting abilities without watching you cast, but anyone who is self taught would likely benefit from competent instruction. I certainly did.
Castwell - I watched with some sympathy a couple weeks ago, when on similar thread to almost gave yourself apoplexy trying to convince people that the key to good casting is STOP THE ROD! Enviable restraint on your part this time:-)

Marco,

I guess you're right, ... the 40 ft cast is pretty straight forward.

It's when the forty feet is straight into a stiff breeze (wind) and your throwing a #6 Brown Bird that a nice tight loop and a tad of a single haul helps.

That's why I practice sooo much. Easy days, ... for the hard ones http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bb/smile.gif

That way, .. even when it's a bit complicated, ... I'm still having FUN!

------------------
Christopher Chin, Jonquiere Quebec
[url=http://pages.videotron.com/fcch/:b76f6]Fishing the Ste-Marguerite[/url:b76f6]




[This message has been edited by fcch (edited 05 September 2005).]

There are a couple of things which fly casting should be. Effective and fun.

Unfortunately for many it isn't either and the frustration level makes the whole experience considerably less than it can be.

Casting should be totally automatic. Put the cast where it needs to be - regardless of position, wind, overhead trees, brush and so on. If you can't do that, you need to work on your casting.

The only way to do that is by practice - and by practicing the right things. Once it is
"in there" it will become automatic - effective and fun!

------------------
LadyFisher, Publisher of
FAOL

LF, ... nicely said.

I've been waving a stick around for close to (wheez) 30-35 years now.

I "feel" that I'm doing things automatically. I look at the lie and the fly goes there. The drift is like I want it and the line just mends sort of by itself.

That said, ... I'm down right scared to try out the Sage thingy. ... I KNOW I'm not an elegant caster (and more than a few very accomplished intsructors and anglers have told me so).

Sort of like Downhill racing, ... I'm afraid that if I start thinking about the techniques, ... I'll CRASH! http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bb/wink.gif


------------------
Christopher Chin, Jonquiere Quebec
[url=http://pages.videotron.com/fcch/:3819f]Fishing the Ste-Marguerite[/url:3819f]

Smithwick mentioned the same point I was going to make, "The basic advantages of doing it right are an extreme decrease in the amount of effort needed to make a given cast, and an increase in accuracy. The ability to fish in foul conditions is also greatly augmented."

I belong to a casting club, and many members can hit the 40' target most times, but they do it with open loops or too much arm movement or .. or ... In a breeze they would have trouble and they get tired or sore arms early in the day. They can hit the target but not in ONE backcast. Yes - good casting is the key to being comfortable all day and catching more fish.

Gentlemen: Lotsa good advice in your responses. I'm almost afraid to take a lesson for fear of being asked " so HOW LONG have you been flyfishing"?.I see that a proper casting method might actually be less strenuous. I fish all day and feel no pain so I must be doin something right.In any case, next fish-in ( maybe Idaho) I'll get a few pointers from "hisself".
Thanks for the responses.

Mark

------------------
I'd rather be in Wyoming!

Marco, this will be the last Idaho Fish-In - so if you want Castwell's help, try and make it - the next Fish-In we attend will be Michigan '06. We will arrive on Mon/Tues...if that meets your schedule let us know.

------------------
LadyFisher, Publisher of
FAOL

Casting is a little more difficult that most people give it credit for. In fact I'd just about bet that when put to task that a very small percentage of fly casters could actually hit a 30 inch ring at 40 feet on the "first" try. That first try being the "only" shot you are going to get at a rising fish before you put the fish down if you line or spook it.

Not that we all need to be terrific casters to catch fish. Very rarely do you ever need to make such a difficult shot as you described.

However I think it has too often been passed over that since a person can't perform a particular task that they feel they didn't need that skill in the first place. I remember sitting in high school thinking "Who needs this math stuff. I'll never use it later in life"

I would highly suggest that you practice and become skilled in all facets of the sport that you love. If not then just enjoy the fact that there is a lot to learn and maybe just enjoy the experience of being at one with nature.

John

------------------
[url=http://www.flyfishingarkansas.com:db0a5]http://www.flyfishingarkansas.com[/url:db0a5]

Just because a subject is to often poorly rendered to its students, doesnt make it intrinsicly more difficult or its students less capable. Learn your way to the other end, the journey is its own reward.

------------------
Captn. Paul Darby

It's funny, this casting thing.

To many being an "ok caster" as the majority of folks probably are is fine, I guess. I mean, you don't need to be "really" good to actually catch fish. As a good friend says to me with a grin - "...those trout are generous."

Now I'm fortunate. I have -1. a son who taught himself to cast on an old, old fiberglass stick on a lake with a big fly. He had the gift of patience and kept at it, for some reason.

And -2. I"m lucky enough to have come across a fellow who lives close by that actually teaches adults, as well as kids, the casting skills. And he's pretty darn good!

I mention I'm lucky only because my skills do allow me to cast and catch trout and warmwater fish to a fairly decent degree but I have tons of room for improvement.

And it shows, every time I stand next to my son or go over to my friends home. Then I look like, well, damn near disabled!!

I go out on the lawn or school field nearby and cast every week a few times and most every weekend. John's post above brought to mind the essential fact of having a good caster work with you or at the very least having a good caster periodically demonstrate his technique and give you pointers.

Then go home and practice those pointers before they leave your head. My own particular troubles come in the application of power in the stroke, that gentle speed up and sudden stop.

I've read lots ...LOTS... about it and know what I SHOULD do but be danged if I can get there. Then I get some pointers and better yet, the actual demo. on what I need to do and the light comes on!

It takes time. And it takes practice and I'm not so certain it can be accomplished completely by yourself.

I'm talking about getting to the point of someone looking at you and seeing that line shoot effortlessly, parallel to the ground, not having a ripple along it's entire length and not tailing as you apply power and deliver the cast!

It's poetry in motion it is!! And it's not totally elusive but for me, it's been a long time a'comin' and I ain' quite there yet. But it's getting much, much better! Thanks to the help and demo's. I've been lucky enough to receive.

A person needs to have help with some points along the way, not just read and practice. It really has been so much help for me, from my XP's to some recent bamboo's. And the switching between is another story but when you have the basics down it all comes together, graphites or grass!

And when it does it's soooo sweet!

Get some practice every week. Get the basics down and watch your line loop and tippet fly (yarn). These fly rods are wonderful toys!

Geez, I love the cast!

Jeremy.

Marco

Don't be afraid to take a casting lesson just because you have been fly fishing for some time. A good instructor will point out your strengths and help you with any weaknesses. Kind of like taking the car in for a tune up or going to the doc for a check up.

Dave

Jim:

I really look forward to being able to talk to you both in person for a change. I try to cast "all" the new rods at the show. If you see something I should take a look at let me know.

Loomis will have a hard time doing much more than they have with the Stream Dance and the new spey line. Although I talked with them last week and apparently Steve is working on a "Proline" of high performance rods. Hopefully I'll get a chance to work with him on a distance rod and a European nymphing rod as well. I don't expect anything on that until next year though.

See you there. Lets have some coffee together.

John

------------------
[url=http://www.flyfishingarkansas.com:536ec]http://www.flyfishingarkansas.com[/url:536ec]