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Rod Finishing ?????
It's been a while, but I am still building my first rod....a 7-0 3wt built on an F.E. Thomas taper....
here is my question
I tipped and applied my first coat of MOW spar...I've been turning by hand...how long do you suggest...I hand turn it.
How many coats should I apply before dealing with tag ends?
BTW the gold tipping was the ticket...with the MOW the gold went translucent and contrasts the blank nicely.
casey
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Varnish
Sounds like it is gonna be a nice rod!
For the threads, I usually apply the first coats of MOW cut 50/50. I put it on with a dubbing needle, and gently massage it in. The first few coats are so thin that there is no buildup on the threads only IN the threads. I probably don't need to turn at this point but I have a turner -- so I do.
The next coats are only 10% turpentine and there is some "wet " build up. These need to be turned. I leave it on the motor for an hour or so, probably overkill, but it is on the motor so why not.
Here is a thought. Throw a few wraps on a dowel. Varnish them with the rod and turn them by hand also. After a while you want to see if it is dry enough, test touch the wrap on the dowel. Fingerprints won't matter.
AgMD
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rod finishing
There's no real need to turn the rod after you varnish the wraps, just put it on evenly in thin coats and let it sit in the stand over nite. I don't own a rod turner and I've made 65 bamboo rods and refinished several dozen others and they came out fine without turning.
john
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varnish
jchanner, You are almost certainly right on about this. But you see i have this rod turner that I built --- Probably a classic case of the guy with a hammer, thinking that all problems are nails.
AgMD
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I agree with John, turn the rod when you are varnishing the wraps. Just hang it when varnishing the rod.
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Thanks...like you I've heard mixed reports....well I hand turned the rod while finishing the wraps. I then continued to turn 1/4 to 1/3 turn every 5 mins for about 1 1/2 to 2 hours. I then let it dry overnight guides down, just in case.
when is a good time to deal with the tag ends and fuzzies. Again, I using MOW spar...I would think just before I apply my final coat? suggestions.
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Pull your tags just under the first 2 turns , then cut them and pull them completely under, don't pull them thru or you just make unnecessary work. If you already have them sticking out, then shave them with a fresh razor blade after the second coat, then apply more coats as needed to completely bury the thread. Let the last coat cure for at least 2 days, longer is better, then sand them flat with 1200 grit wet/dry wrapped around a small sanding block being VERY CAREFULL!!!! not to sand thru to the thread. I can't stress this enough, if you hit the thread you will make an odd spot that won't finish right. Then dip the rod as many times as it takes to get the finish you want, let each coat dry for at least 3 days before you sand it, don't pay any attention to what the can says about sanding the next day, the varnish will just ball up under the sand paper and make a mess out of all your hard work.
john
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thanks...I won't be dipping, rod is semi-impregnated...applied a third coat will nip tomorrow...should I sand or wait until the next to last coat?
Also, is there any harm in waiting days in between coats...I may not be able to apply anymore finish until after christmas???
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Hey John,
How do you "pull it under" after you've trimmed the tagged end?
C13- The longer you wait for the varnish to cure the better before any sanding as it does "ball up" if it is still not cured.
Quinn
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What I have found that works is a little different than what John has stated, will have to try that one sometime.
What I do for tag ends is what was recommended to me several years ago and it works like a charm. When i first start the wrap, I will make 5 to 8 wraps at the start, then pull the starting tag up beside the foot of the guide and trim it very closely using a blade used in a matt cutter from the picture framing business. At the end of the wrap I slide my tag loop in when I have about 8 to 10 wraps left to make. At the end of the wrap I pull my tag loop through and then grab the tag end (about 4 to 5 inches) pull it really tight but not tight enough to break it and once again trim very very closely with that matt blade. Then I burnish with a polished stone and 99 times out of 100 I won't have an exposed tag end to worry with in finishing. Works like a charm and eliminates those ugly little sharp points in the finish.
cholcomb13, there is not harm in waiting a few days to apply coats. One caution, some finishes will have to be roughed up a tad for the follow up or touch up coats to be applied...read the label of your varnish or finish coat.
Hey John, something you may want to give a shot, works pretty well for me, is to wet sand instead of dry sanding! It really does a much nicer job and the varnish I am using accepts it really well after 24 hours in the drying cabinet..I usually use a 2500 grit and would gladly use 3000 or higher if it wasn't so expensive and hard to source
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I picked up some 1500 wet/dry....they had 2000 which was the highest they had...should I pick that up instead.
btw....thanks for the tips....next rod I plan on using some of these tips during wrapping
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you should be quite alright with the 1500. I like the finer grits for just exatly what has been described and I also like it wet with very little pressure.
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finishing
Quinn;
Most guys start their wrap, wrap most of the way to the end then put in a pull loop and pull the tag under the main wrap, if you get your loop in 10-15 turns before the end , you can pull the tag under 2 turns, cut it, then pull it under without the end of the thread coming out between the wraps. I start my wrap with the loop laying along one side of the guide foot, put the start tag under the other side, then pull the tag end completely thru when I'm done. Burnish the wrap, pull the tags one more time to snug everything up and trim right next to the wrap, nice and neat and no bump from the end of the thread, plus the thread along the foot helps wick varnish in the tunnel so I don't get any air bubbles.
WC, I have wet sanded, I find dry sanding works as well for me.
C13, When I do an impregnated blank, I sand before the last 2 coats. The longer you wait between coats that you intend to sand the better as far as I'm concerned. The only time you need to be concerned about getting the next coat on is with polyurethanes and lacquers that need the first coat to not be cured before the next goes on in order for it to bond.Even with those finishes, all you have to do is scuff sand if you've waited too long.
john
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john...so your tag ends are right up against the guide foot? How does that look when the thread is translucent? can you see the thread running next to the guide? can you post a pick of a finished rod?
Thanks
Casey
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Casey,
you wont see the tag ends, the varnish does the same thing to all of the thread!
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nice I'll have to try that technique on my next rod...when you sand what do you use to pick up the dust?
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rod finishing
casey;
Dleo is right, you don't see them at all.
john
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casey;
I wrap first, then varnish the whole rod. I wipe it down with a rag wet with turpentine first, when that's dru I wipe lightly with a tack cloth, then vacuum with a a mini shop vac and a small brush attachment and still wind up polishing out a few bumps and dust barticles.
john
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tack cloth...not familar with those...can you pick up at hardware store? I have a dustbuster with a small brush attachment...will that work.
dleo...very nice wraps on that rod....I especially like the tipping.
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Casey, a tack cloth is basically nothing more than a completely lint free rag of some sort that usually had a little thinner or additive of that nature on it that enables it to be used on whatever is about to be painted, coated, or whatever to remove residuals from the surface. You can buy tack cloth at any quality furniture refinishing store, automotive paint store, and in some hardware stores that have adequate paint departments. I usually tack with a cloth treated with a mixture of thinner and my varnish mixture very lightly...works like a charm
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I've got some mineral spirits....after I wipe down...let dry--about how long?
Also, today I took my exacto knife and carefully sliced the tag ends (nubs)...there still are some rough spots...sanding should take care of those? I area I spiced took a good chunk of varnish with it making a hole to the threads (I didn't hit the thread) hole is small...when I varnish next will that hole fill in??? or do I need to apply a little more?
Also, I may skip sanding that part as I don't want to hit any threads.....
BTW that's all was able to do today...as I went fishing instead :mrgreen:
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I'd stay away from mineral spirits if I were you. I just used mineral spirits on a rod to tack it just before the final dip. See the rod swap thread for links to some photos to see the results. :evil:
Contaminated the surface and the varnish started alligatoring. Not good and never again.
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Jim thanks for the heads up...suggestions for what to put on tack cloth...would a little MOW do the trick???
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dleo had recommended denatured alcohol followed by a wipe down with hot water. Personally, I was wondering if tack cloth or I think they call the stuff cheese cloth, straight out of the package would work fine. It is sticky already and removing dust prior to applying varnish or other finishes is what that stuff is made for. What does everyone else think?
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I too am interested in what others use....it's been a couple of days since I varnished I still have several more coats...but it might be a few more days until I get back to it....how would you store the rod? Is it OK to put back in the sock and tube?
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What I have found that works really well for me when I am ready to dip is to do a final tack with a clean piece of old tee shirt that has been well dampened with alcohol. As soon as that is finished, I dampen another piece of the old tee shirt with water that is as hot as my hands can stand, and do a final with that. I hang the sections in the drying cabinet until I am ready to dip (usually within 30 min to an hour)
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I just picked up some tack clothes at a auto store for a $1.00....someone mentioned this as a potential source before....
Any bad experiences with these?
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nope...pretty good stuff and is usually contaminant free...go for it! Keep in mind as you use it, all you want to do is to remove dust that may have settled on the rod, and to remove sanding dust from the crevices created by sanding, so don't use a strong polishing action, just a wiping action.
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thanks....will it be ready to varnish after use or do I need to wait some time between tack cloth and varnishing?
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You will be ready to apply the varnish immmediatly. now wait time
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dleo....what....I'm confused???? wait or varnish and then wait (I've been waiting 24 hrs between coats)
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hehehe...too much thumb and put a W in there I guess..
after you tack with the cloth you bought you do not need to wait, you are ready to varnish....
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I couldn't varnish after I tacked but I checked it this evening and the areas tacked (wraps) were still tacky...should I be concerned or is it all right to varnish over this?
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Varnished over tackiness...Any suggestions with regard to final varnish for one not using a drying box in keeping airborne dust away? Can it be smooth afterwards?
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Casey, that tackiness you are describing sounds like you may have rubbed a bit too hard with your tacking cloth. At any rate, its coated now. When MOW Varnish is completely cured you can use as high a grit of wet sandpaper as you can find and very very lightly go over the dust specs if you have any. then polish using Turtle wax anti swirl compound and use it liberally, then finish it off with "Finesse-it II" automotive polish to the desired lustre.
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Thanks Leo....any last words of advice?
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how are you applying your varnish Casey
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for the initial coats I've been using 1/8 inch nylon brushes for edges (tipping & guides) bamboo scuewers (sp?)...there doesn't appear to be any brush marks...is there a better/different way I should apply it for the final coats.
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How long should I let the varnish cure?....after it is cured is it go to go fishing?