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Hey fellow tyers,
I love tungsten for my slimmer profile patterns (Zebras, Poison Tungs) for the quick sink rate, however, I am trying to get away from using tungston beads for my buggier patterns where hiding the lead wraps is easier and for cost reasons. I would really like to hear your opinions on the amount of lead wraps and size of lead needed to replace a 5/64 tungsten bead rto get the same sink rate. I normally tie on 18 scud hooks.
Thanks
steve
Steve, I do this a lot with all of my beadhead patterns. I use regular brass beads in the various colors available and I wrap non-lead wire that I tuck under the bead as a substitute for tungsten. I call it "Poor Man's Tungsten". I use .015 size non-lead wire due to many restrictions on waters against using lead. Here is the reference I've developed for doing this on most bead sizes:
5/64" beads: Hook sizes 18-20 = 2 wraps
3/32" beads: Hook sizes 16-18 = 3 wraps
1/8" beads: Hook sizes 12-14 = 4 wraps
Here are some pics as to how it works and looks:
http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/v...sTungsten1.png
http://i682.photobucket.com/albums/v...sTungsten2.png
You obviously accomplish two things with this method, while saving money at the same time - you add weight as well as fill the dead space under the bead so it takes fewer thread wraps to finish the fly.
Hope this helps. As to how it compares to tungsten, I haven't done anything scientific to measure this, but it makes sense and saves a lot.
I also use just the .015 size non-lead wire for all of my non-bead patterns that I would like to slim down, yet still have some weight to them, but you won't get the equivalent weight as tungsten with lead or non-lead without bulking up the fly and defeating your purpose.
Kelly.
if you want to be extremely nit-picky, find someone who handloads rifle or pistol ammo and use their scale to find the mass of each size tungsten bead, and the equivalent mass of whatever diameter wire you wish to use in place of the bead. Record the length/diameter and bead size correlations, and you will be good-to-go.
You can also compare brass bead of given diameter plus whatever length/diameter of wire correlates to whatever diameter tungsten bead. Tungsten beads, along with everything else, won't all have exactly the same mass (weight), even in the same package, but they will be close.
There are SO MANY other variables in how fast a fly sinks while fishing, that all the numbers will only give you a general comparison anyhow. I usually use brass beads with some wraps of lead wire, and call it good.
Then at the extreme end, tonight's flies will have a brass conehead, a 3/16" tungsten snugged in behind them, and wire snugging the beads in place. I haven't decided whether I'm going to use leaded or unleaded wire. Poor John Scott might not recognize this mutation of his Pine Squirrel Cheater, especially with the hackle collar in front of the conehead. Then there is the abuse of Mr. Frailey's Peacock Bugger...
Ed, going deep
kglissmeyer, thanks I like that. it looks great and appreciate you putting in the number of wraps you use per size. I just can't justify the cost of tungsten with flies I am planning to bounce on the bottom.
Once upon a time someone on here was selling beads and I didn't get any then. Now I wish I had written down who it was so I could see if he still has any.
Kevin
The best place I have found to buy beads in the Canadian Llama company. They have both brass and tungsten. www.canadianllama.com
I have been using Kelly's trick of packing wire behind a brass bead and have found that it works very well. Thanks Kelly!
Ted
"Once upon a time someone on here was selling beads and I didn't get any then. Now I wish I had written down who it was so I could see if he still has any"
Could that have been "gqualls" on FAOL. I have dealt with him and he is a great person to deal with and he sells beads at very reasonable prices.
Hey Ed, I hope your planning on wearing a helmet when you cast those things. I don't think you can count on much protection from your hair!
Why not try Spirit River's new Tungsten thread? I saw this at the FTDS in New Orleans. It should be perfect for your needs on small flies such as 18 or smaller Zebras.
http://spiritriver.net/new-products/tungsten-thread
The Spirit River web site says: "Our new tungsten thread is extremely fine, strong and works well for tiny nymphs. The x-fine will tie down to a 28 and the fine is good for 12 through 20. This material is an actual wire but can be half hitched and adds a surprising amount of weight on smaller flies where lead creates too much bulk."
I have bought a lot of beads from him, and they are good quality. I don't use beads that much anymore. I recommend him.Quote:
Originally Posted by WarrenP
Toads don't wear hats... Ed should be fine!
<duck, Ed!>
I chose an alternate plan of not hitting myself with the fly. As it turned out, the coneheads I bought were too big to make it around the bend of my hooks, so those were omitted. I used a 5/16" tunghead with 8-14 wraps of .020 lead-free wire behind it. For some reason or other, I kept hanging up on the bottom. Fortunately I was able to retrieve my flies, although a couple need to be sharpened. As a side note, the furled, fluorocarbon leader that Warren made was up to turning that fly over like is was a trico. I think that leader could have turned over a brick, since, as Warren so gratiously pointed out, a brick might have been lighter and made less of a splash entering the water.Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbowchaser
Ed
P.S. to Quivira Kid: <quack><quack>
Have you tried old spark plugs, they work for jug lines.Quote:
Originally Posted by EdD
Man, that's kind of the ultimate dis, misspelling a guys' alias.
It would be, Uncle Jessi, if I was able to spel and tpe. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Jesse
Apologies and no offence to Quivira Kid.
Ed
I got tired of guessing what some lead jig heads really weighed and also tungsten beads as well as cones so I ordered a digital scale from Amazon. It's a Triton T2 (550G X 0.1G) and I also bought a 200 G. Weight to check it's accuracy from time to time. I am happy with it and does a really good job of telling me the truth.
It can weigh up to 550G and has a 30 year warranty. I use it all the time for all kinds of things.
Skip
I purchase my tungsten beads from Jimmy Traylor - Wishes and Fishs fly Shop, http://shop.flyfisharkansas.com/
Jimmy specializes in Tungsten Beads, and he's a great guide for the White River, Ark.
I copied the info below from his web site for ya' :
"For all the colors and pictures of Tungsten Beads click on the tungsten bead outlet tap. To order beads or any other items give the shop a call 8am till 4 pm Tuesday through Sunday morning by calling 870-445-3848. We accept Visa & Master card and generally ship out the same day. Orders over $28.00 ship for $2.00 and orders over $50.00 ship for free.
Our tungsten beads are priced just right for the tier starting at just $3.50 per package of 25 up to the 1/8 size (3.2 mm) The 5/32 (4.0 mm) is just $3.75 per package of 25 and the 3/16 (4.6 mm) is just $4.50 for a package of 25. These beads are cut with a nice chamfered bevel on the edge and one side of the bead has a larger hole molded in for easy hook attachment. Check out the colors on the tungsten bead outlet pages.
NOW: Natural or uncolored tungsten beads $10.00 per hundred up to the 1/8 (3.2 mm) size and $3.75 for the 5/32 and 3/16 size."
Bowfin47
Bowfin, I take it the $3.75 for the 5/32 and 3/16 sizes is per 25 and not 100. Just trying to avoid any confusion with your friends flyshop.Quote:
Originally Posted by bowfin47