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Is anyone else having problems with these people. I placed and order a month ago and still have not recieved some of the order and had to return some defective stuff but the problem is I cannot get him to return calls or email to resolve this problem. 6 or 7 calls and as many emails and no word back from him. I don't know what to do. The excuse of moving and new owner has gotten old.
[This message has been edited by Bugchecker (edited 01 March 2006).]
I can certainly understand your frustration and hope that the delay is not causing you a real problem, beyond just annoyance. Still, it is probably most reasonable to cut them some slack during this transition to new ownership and a new location.
I'm guessing that the new owner is even more frustrated than you are. He probably paid not just the price of the physical assets of the biz, but also a premium for its goodwill and customer base. The longer it takes him to get things running smoothly, the more money he risks losing on his purchase of the goodwill and customer base.
I have no affiliation with H&H or its new owner. Just making an observation as a business person and one who has gone through the process of having to relocate my business office.
I have to go with oldfrat. I think we are all watching to see what happens with H&H. They have been nothing but stellar in the past. Ron has likely bit a bit more off to chew than he realized.
New Ownership and moving means learning a great deal real quick - not to mention a staff that likely needs training. How many of the original staff was willing to move from New York to Pennsylvania?
I suspect they will be a bit overwhelmed for a few months. I would be willing to give them that at least. Hopefully they can get settled soon. I will likely be placing an order soon for another rod kit 8? 5wt or maybe 9?.
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Let No One Walk Alone
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Bill
I really want this to turn out good but nobody told me the business sold when i placed a 900 dollar order with them. I have 300 dollars of stuff missing and I am a new customer. I saved for 2 years to buy new equipment and cannot afford to loose $300. I would think that for that amount of money he could make a phone call. I have been very nice in all my contacts to them. I have not acted like an irate customer. But nothing but silence. No attempt to aleve my fears. But if you guys really think i should wait a little longer before I look for options I will. I am getting really worried though. thanks guys.
I've had nothing but stellar service all this time with the previous ownership, and then ordered the two DVDs. One worked. One didn't. So I posted here after not having three e-mails sent to the new owner and received a bit of a hand slap. That was a week or so ago, so I've backed off and let things come to the surface. Apparently this lack of communication isn't topical. I'm very forgiving, and the DVD on rod building is still sitting here unplayed. I was about to order a reel and line for the last rod I bought and built from H & H, and am now wondering if I should go elsewhere. Hearing anything would save a sale. Anything. JGW
[This message has been edited by white43 (edited 01 March 2006).]
Bugchecker, for what it is worth, I am on your side on this one. My post was just to reassure you based on what I suspect may be happening based on general experience. I have no knowledge of what is really happening and I wish you nothing but the best. I do expect you'll come out whole.
Oldfrat thanks for the support. I am kinda new to faol and computers and its really nice to have people like you to run things by. I just figured out how to check personal profiles so
J Castwell I stayed the winter in Pousbo a few years ago out at Roadadendren mobil and rv park. My brother lives in Silverdale. Just retired from Keyport. Great people up there. Small world. Thanks for the help.
[This message has been edited by Bugchecker (edited 01 March 2006).]
BC, This thread has to be a hard one for JC & LF. H&H is a sponsor, paying fees that pay for the site and provide their income. To their credit, they are leaving the thread up.
The thread also has to be hard on the new H&H owner. It is costing him money as we all read it and decide to delay any purchases until he has their act in order.
I suspect he is really torn right now betwen spending time on getting things fixed so there will be no more problems and spending time corresponding with unhappy customers and solving their specific problems.
My advice to him would be to place a priority on getting things working right versus communicating with individual customers. I'd also reco getting as little sleep as possible in order to do as much of both as possible. And I'd reco he uses posts on boards like this to reach as many current and future customers as possible with a single post/email to let them know he cares and is doing his best.
Sadly I was.
I called twice and asked to speak to Ron or Bob about an order I wanted to place. Both times they said I could not be passed through but they would fax them my number and ask them to call. No response. I then sent them an email detailing what I wanted to buy and my questions... No response. I placed an order with another company because I was not interested in ordering from a place that did not return my calls.
Its a far call from the well deserved reputation they had. Its so hard to earn a good reputation and sooo easy to loose one.
jed
"Its so hard to earn a good reputation and sooo easy to loose one."
Jed, that sounds like the voice of experience to me....
Some may say that the comment I'm about to voice is uncalled for but isn't this site about opinions? So here's mine:
H & H is a sponsor and as such has gone through (or at least we're told) some scutiny by the owners. H & H also had an excellent reputation insofar as its products, prices and customer service. The old owners made a public announcement by posting information about the sale. The new owner also announced through posting here on the bulletin board his dedication to continuing the same quality performance and reputation of the company but from another location.
Therefore, to dispell any of the problems this new owner was experiencing, why didn't he just post a broad announcement here on the board? He could have just said that the move was more involved and causing some unexpected situations that he did not anticipate and he was sorry for any delays or missed communications. If I were a customer awaiting a delivery this would have sufficed and at least given me some feeling that my order was appreciated, was being dealt with and I would have coinsidered any emails or phone calls I might have sent answered.
To paraphrase someone - You can do 100 things right but all it takes is to do 1 thing wrong.
Allan
Or to quote another great but anonymous philosopher, "It Only takes One OH S*** to cancel out 10 Attaboys" Wait and see how JC and LF make out.
Bob
I've bought and sold a business and have been in on the transition of several others.
IMHO and experience - customers are pretty supportive (even remarkably so) if they know you are *really* trying - But the only way for them to know that is if you *tell* them.
My experience in this.....
First of all the new owner did post that there were troubles in the transition.
It turns out I placed an order with the new owner, Ron,,,,right during the days his inventory was in transit to the new warehouse....part of the order was shipped from the manufacturer and I got that as expected...the other part arrived yesterday...it came from his warehouse...it was not shipped till about a week to 10 days after the order but his post on FAOL had warned of this....so for me at least I can cut him slack....I don't think he anticipated how hard it would be to get current.
Now, unfortunately [we'll see] I placed an order just before I saw this string so I hope it goes well....his -email newsletter currently as some good discounts...but I too would have waited after seeing this string...
We need to see how LF fares.
OK folks, Ron is "finally" getting caught up,
where more orders are shipping than are coming in. He is shipping about 150 orders a day - and is including either an extra goodie or giving extra discounts. He now has 6 people working (the most Bob ever had was 3)
Some orders which have not shipped were waiting for stuff to come in from his suppliers (45 boxes came in this morning.)
I do believe he is doing everything he can to fill orders, and he says he will be caught up within 10 days. Bob advised Ron NOT to post here on the board, which is why he hasn't...
He is returning phone calls in the evenings,
and once this crunch is over you will be able to talk to him about your orders (and rod building is his speciality.)
Things did not go as smoothly as everyone had hoped or intended - but he has EVERY intention of the business being what it always has been.
Let's cut him a little slack here folks.
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LadyFisher, Publisher of
FAOL
LF's word is good enough for me. I like many folks have orders into H&H the oldest being a little over a month. I received one order yesterday and hope to see the other soon.
I like everyone else have come to expect that stellar service H&H has always provided and like everyone else am just as impatient, but understanding with their present situation. For myself I hope that once this transition catches up, all will be back to normal or even better. Only time will tell that. As for now, they still can count on me for business.
I'm a newbie, but my first experience with Ron was good. I ordered on Feb. 6 and got my kit on tuesday. From what I read here, Ron was in the process of moving when I ordered, but he responded to my couple emails all within a day or so. I thought the service was good, all things considered.
I agree that "Let's cut him a little slack here folks." is appropriate in some instances but also a returned e-mail or phone call is sometimes also called for. Jack
Here is what I would like to say to Ron:
Rule one in sales is to always be 110% upfront with your customers. When someone calls and asks to speak with Ron, the answer I got was I'll fax him your request. What Should have been said was something like we are in a transition here and currently backlogged. Please undersand that Ron will not be able to return calls for 'x' days. We thank you for your understanding and are working to get back to our well usual standards of excellence.
It is understandable that this happens. It is worth telling your customers the estimated ship date and if they are unable to live with that then let them know H&H will return to a quicker ship date soon.
No response or I'll fax him your request... and leaving it as though you will get a call back is disengenuous and does not inspire confidence. If I was told that I would have to wait 5 days for a call and then 5 days for shipping (or whatever the time really is) I might very well have said fine, I'll wait. Because I heard nothing, three times I decided to move this sale to someone who could meet my requirements. I placed my order elsewhere and they emailed me within 24 hours that they were out of one piece, that it should be in before the end of the week and that they would turn it around and ship it out same day.
Communication is the key. While the rough transition is excusable, the lack of communication about that difficulty from those who answer the phones is not.
So this sale went elsewhere. Next time I might very well try H&H due to their good reputation over time. I do not want to write them off because of a rough transition. BUT if this is how they are 6 months down the road I for one will look elsewhere.
jed
why send out the sale notices if he was already buried? Also, why would BOb tell Ron not to post here? There have been a bazillion orders to H&H from folks on FAOL over the years. When I do not have the information I want then I make my own conclusion based on what I know or do not know. It would really be sad for Ron to lose a ton of business for lack of simple communication. I have an order, but I am going to wait and see what happens.
Good luck to H&H. May your business thrive.
Sounds like i am in the same boat as a lot of other people here. I placed an order about 2 weeks ago and have not heard anything about it after a couple of calls and emails. I certainly understand a rough transition and the time it takes to catch up with orders, but I do have an issue with my credit card being charged without the product being shipped. That to me seems something simple that they could hold off charging you until your order does actually ship......... I
LF thanks for the info. I suspected Ron was jumping into more than expected as soon as I heard he was moving. We all need to cut him some slack.
I don't understand the instruction not to post here though. I can think of an occasssion where one sponsor jumped on another for attempting to advertise with the posting. I could see that getting out of hand, but simple communication can be good and should not be avoided.
I still plan to order another rod kit soon.
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Let No One Walk Alone
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Bill
[This message has been edited by PanFisher (edited 02 March 2006).]
Bob was/is registered here, but never posted except for the sale information....two reasons, first being seen as 'advertising' and the second, if you are already swamped and post here, then you have to respond.
You might be surprised to know out of all of our Sponsors (about 90) there are only 4 or 5 who post at all - and usually to answer questions about their products, or in Al Beatty's case help with tying problems.
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LadyFisher, Publisher of
FAOL
I ordeered a reel from H&H Feb 13th.
I knew from LF's post on this site that the company had moved. Waited patiently and as expected arrived yesterday. Alittle long but after a move I consider it excellent service!
I have to go with the thought that we need to just let things happen with H&H. I currently have an order that is backordered with them, but it's a case of the supplier not shipping to Ron on time. At the price I paid for the items, I'm willing to wait. I also have a particularly soft spot in my heart for anyone who's involved in relocating a business. I had my introduction to the "real world" this past summer when I interned with a consulting firm working primarily on moving a plant to another state. With this sort of thing, nothing ever goes according to plan, and that's putting it lightly. I wish him the best of luck, because I've had so many good experiences with H&H.
Ron called after hours this evening - they shipped 149 shipments today. Yours might be one of them! http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bb/biggrin.gif
I did suggest again he register and post here himself, and he says once things are running more smoothly he will.
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LadyFisher, Publisher of
FAOL
A positive note:
I sent a winding check back to exchange for size about 10 days ago and got the correct one yesterday.
Please note I returned it to the old NY address and still got it back in less than 2 wks.
Thanks
I'd Just like to say to Ron,
Not to get discouraged,and I am hoping that things smooth out as quickly as possible for him...
I know what it is to move my tying supplies from PA to NY..and back again....I may not have the amount he has to deal with...
But It sure seems like it at the moment..
I still (It's been 4 months since the final move back to PA )Have boxes stacked and have to litterily wade through them to get to my tying desk...and sort through boxes to get settup for a single pattern!!!... That said ..I am glad to have finnished up my last swap flies!!!!!
at the rate of 100 or better orders shipped a day..I believe he'll get his head above water in short order....Please cut the man slack!!!
Some have asked why not post...I am amazed hes got the strenth left to bother posting/calling or much of anything else at the end of the day...and am glad for any response at all..Ty LF. for the updates!!!!!
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"I've often wondered why it is that so many anglers spend so much money on,and pay so much attention to.the details on the wrong end of the fly line.If they took as much care in selecting or tying their flies as they did in the selection of the reel and rod,They might be able to gain the real extra edge that makes it possible to fool a fish that has,in fact,seen it all before" A.K.Best
Everyone wants to excel in this sport but at the same time we let traditionalists place restrictions on our tactics, methods, and ideas. I always assumed that fly fishing was a sport that allowed imagination, creation, adaptation, investigation, dedication, education, revelation? : Fox Statler, On Spinners (Not the dainty Dry Fly kind) "Spinner'd Minner Fly"
"Wish ya great fishing"
Bill
[This message has been edited by billknepp (edited 04 March 2006).]
I must have been a lucky one. I ordered some tying materials in the midst of their move and got it within a reasonable time.Hopefully things are getting back to normal. I've never had a problem with H&H and that's not an easy statement to make with too many companies anymore.
best,
Steve
I ordered a rod kit, tying stuff, two reel spools and a line right before the move. All but one spool and the line have arrived since the move. The spool and line are backordered. I feel confident they will show up soon enough. Ron is shipping three times for the price of one shipping charge. I'll cut him some slack.
I just got off the phone with Hook and Hackle. They finally called and have promised to resolve this problem. Thanks everybody for the help and advise.