Can air travel get any worse? : (

What a nightmare it was trying to fly yesterday. I fly A LOT for work so I'm a seasoned traveler but man it's getting worse and worse out there. Customer service is totally non-existant with the airlines and delays are at an all-time high.

Tried to fly up to Manchester, NH from Rochester, NY. Yes, I could have driven but this time of year lake effect snow in our area can be real, real nasty. Well you cannot fly Northwest from ROC to MAnchester so I flew Continential which was a BIG mistake as their main hub (Newark, NJ) is a conjested nightmare. I should have been at my hotel by 5:00pm but after long ground delays in Rochester and in Newark I arrived at the hotel just a few minutes before 1:00am :(

As I sat and sat and sat at the Newark airport I looked over the departing flight screens and here's what I saw

There were 124 outbound flights listed on the boards. ONLY 48 OF THOSE 124 FLIGHTS WERE ON TIME!!! :shock: That's around 38%

Thank goodness my return is via Cleveland and not Newark.

They are taking after baseball. A hitter that hits 380 would make multimillions.
fortunately on our last trip the flights were on time, but we saw many that were delayed.

Rick

that is why I have started to nly fly no-stop especially from Minneapolis to Albany NY.. flew once on US Air and it took just over 11 hours to get there witha stop in phillie... never again ..
Tom

Dr. Fish,

Should be a nice day in Cleveland. 45 and sunny this morning, with clouds moving in later toady. Beats the daylights out of snow, which will be here all too soon. I'm taking my 3wt today to fish a pond before a meeting at 2 to plan a Women's Fly Fishing School for May 2008. Assorted PT's and GRHE's should do the trick.

Have a safe trip, and hope to see you at the Cleveland FF Expo in January.

Joe

It does get worse. A friend of mine came to join me for a fishing weekend in Rangely Maine. He flew out of Minneapolis with a change in Detroit heading to Manchester, NH . He got to Detroit and was told his connecting flight was cancelled. It took him a switch to fly into Portland, ME to get in the same night. Only about 4 hours later and a different city.

At least when I took a train I totally expected long delays (and also was not disappointed)

jed

Dr. Fish;
Sorry, that your career requires you to fly. Airlines ARE a true nightmare, anymore, and getting worse. When I flew south, about 3 months ago, I was on a flight from Dallas Texas to Kilgore Texas.
All of us, on that plane, were re-routed on a flight that took us FROM Dallas over to Shreevesport, La., then BACK into Texas, BACK to Dallas, where we sat on the ground for 2 hours, THEN flew to Kilgore, direct!???
We never left our original plane at all that day, until we landed in Kilgore!?!

My older brother, like you, flies for his job all over the world. Anymore, he says, "He plans on one extra, full, day in scheduling his flights anywhere". (That is when, he says, he's flying out of the country and back)
Paul

If I ever fly again it will have to be the ONLY way to get there.
My last trip was to N'Awlins the winter before Katrina.
When we got to Dallas our connecting flight was cancelled.
After waiting in a line that did not move for at least an hour I finally saw a guy at another counter that would help me.
They booked us on a flight with a different carrier the next day. This time going through Houston. They did put us up in motel for the night...a practice which, I believe, is no longer available.
Next day in Houston we had a 25 min lay over but they detained us for the almost strip search causing us to almost miss the plane...they shut the door just as we ran onboard.
We got to N'Awlins our bags did not, they showed up 2 days later. Meanwhile we had to buy new clothes. I found our bags in a large room at the airport....there were literally thousands of bags there....it took quite a while to find all 4 bags which were scattered amoung the thousands.

The airlines have put trains out of business. I guess because you can get where your going faster. If you've never taken a passenger train on a long trip you have no idea what good service is. The level of customer service was awsome. Airlines treat you like a cow.

My bride and me are going on a cruise in January with a number of friends. Since the ship departs from San Juan Puerto Rico, we are flying in the day before to make sure we catch the ship. We almost missed the last ship because of the airlines (six hours of delays), so now we always plan an extra day...just in case!

As far as the airports go, when I travel by air I feel like a criminal going thru the TSA screening. I approach the screener and feel guilty that I have not performed on of the ten thousand pre-screening items. If they spent 10% of that effort on the thieving baggage handlers, many of us would not come up missing personal items from our baggage (in spite of using TSA locks which get bypassed when they "break" the zippers on your luggage. Who are the real criminals at the airports?

I digress...

Joe

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Joe Valencic

My bride and me are going on a cruise in January with a number of friends. Since the ship departs from San Juan Puerto Rico, we are flying in the day before to make sure we catch the ship. We almost missed the last ship because of the airlines (six hours of delays), so now we always plan an extra day...just in case!

As far as the airports go, when I travel by air I feel like a criminal going thru the TSA screening. I approach the screener and feel guilty that I have not performed on of the ten thousand pre-screening items. If they spent 10% of that effort on the thieving baggage handlers, many of us would not come up missing personal items from our baggage (in spite of using TSA locks which get bypassed when they "break" the zippers on your luggage. Who are the real criminals at the airports?

I digress...

Joe

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Don't waste your time with TSA locks as only a select few surpervisors have the keys and at our airport (ROC) they cut the locks off if they need to check the contents instead of opening the bags with a key. Every single TSA/security person I spoke to about TSA locks said "don't waste your $" becuase they just cut them off and you are out the $ paid for those locks.

As for being treated like a crook I agree but heck that happens every day at the gas station where prepay is now mandatory. Nothing like saying "Welcome, please buy gas . . . . oh but you are probably a crook so pay us first."

Yesterday was painful but nothing compared to travel woes I have experienced over the past several years. If I shared them all it would likely scare some from every flying again. Guess I should just be happy my planes didn't crash :shock:

:( Dr Fish I feel your pain. I take about 80 flights a year and to make matters worse I have to deal with OHare here in Chicago. This summer I
was heading to Maine on a 1pm flight and there was wind in Chicago. The flight was canceled and I had to wait for my gear to take a flight to Portland, and then come back the next day before I could get it back. Incredible. If anything will convince me to retire early it will be the airlines and air travel. Like you I could probably write a book on the rude people I have encountered and inconsiderate airlines.

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Originally Posted by sport

:( Dr Fish I feel your pain. I take about 80 flights a year and to make matters worse I have to deal with OHare here in Chicago. This summer I
was heading to Maine on a 1pm flight and there was wind in Chicago. The flight was canceled and I had to wait for my gear to take a flight to Portland, and then come back the next day before I could get it back. Incredible. If anything will convince me to retire early it will be the airlines and air travel. Like you I could probably write a book on the rude people I have encountered and inconsiderate airlines.

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Amen Sport
I sure have met my share of rude airline employees, security people, travelers and such not to mention the close calls, near crashes, aborted take offs and landings, oxygen mask deployments and oh yeah, those heavily armed law enforcement officers who stormed my plane in Amsterdam. Might be able to write a couple books come to think of it.

I did make it back home today and Continental was a perfect 4 for 4. Four flights and ALL 4 were delayed. Well done Continental!

Wow, What a perfect opportunity.

I just finished drafting a letter to send to Colleen Barrett, President of Southworst, uh I mean Southwest Airlines.

My family just got home yesterday from a great trip back home to Utah where they have NO snow, but that is a different gripe all together.

Southworst changed their boarding procedures. Previously, when my wife and I flew with our little kids (16 mos. and 3 mos.) we were permitted to pre-board to avoid holding up the lines and get the kids situated before the massess came on. Those passengers requiring a wheel chair or who had some other handicap were given the same consideration. NOW, there is virtually no pre-boarding. We were told at every gate we came to, that we could get on after the "A" section of passengers. We did and (surprise, surprise) ended up holding up the line trying to fold up the stroller at the door while holding 2 kids and juggling backs and bottles and everything else. If I were behind me in line, I would have wanted to kick my own a$$ for holding everyone up. Ane we weren't the only parents with little kids either. Folks in every line and on every plane asked "Why didn't you guys just pre-board?" Believe me, if we could have then we would have.

Most of you mentioned that you fly for business, so this really wouldn't affect you and their new boarding method is much more organized than before. But when I and my family are not only forced to hinder everyone else in line, but are required to actually board AFTER our passess said we could because we had kids, then something is wrong. My letter to Ms. Barrett says that I'll be telling everyone I know about this. I can't think of a better way than this. Family flyers beware. Southworst does not want your business!

I have quit flying. Period. It is entirely because of the way that passengers/customers are treated. I would rather drive 12 hours than fly for 2.

Ed

I fly about once a week, many times on Southwest. I have had good expereinces with Southwest and there on time record is very good. I thought I would enjoy boarding before the families with kids until I had to share a seat with a rather unruly youngster. I used to be able to avoid them. That would be my complain. OH what the heck, I still enjoy boarding first.

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Originally Posted by Wild One

Wow, What a perfect opportunity.

I just finished drafting a letter to send to Colleen Barrett, President of Southworst, uh I mean Southwest Airlines.

My family just got home yesterday from a great trip back home to Utah where they have NO snow, but that is a different gripe all together.

Southworst changed their boarding procedures. Previously, when my wife and I flew with our little kids (16 mos. and 3 mos.) we were permitted to pre-board to avoid holding up the lines and get the kids situated before the massess came on. Those passengers requiring a wheel chair or who had some other handicap were given the same consideration. NOW, there is virtually no pre-boarding. We were told at every gate we came to, that we could get on after the "A" section of passengers. We did and (surprise, surprise) ended up holding up the line trying to fold up the stroller at the door while holding 2 kids and juggling backs and bottles and everything else. If I were behind me in line, I would have wanted to kick my own a$$ for holding everyone up. Ane we weren't the only parents with little kids either. Folks in every line and on every plane asked "Why didn't you guys just pre-board?" Believe me, if we could have then we would have.

Most of you mentioned that you fly for business, so this really wouldn't affect you and their new boarding method is much more organized than before. But when I and my family are not only forced to hinder everyone else in line, but are required to actually board AFTER our passess said we could because we had kids, then something is wrong. My letter to Ms. Barrett says that I'll be telling everyone I know about this. I can't think of a better way than this. Family flyers beware. Southworst does not want your business!

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It was in the late summer of '68. Late afternoon on a clear and sunny day. I was flying my last trip as a 3rd Crew Member on a corporate plane. Next week I'd be starting a new job as a Quality Control Engineer in one of the manufacturing plants. Life was good, I was 24 years old and had just spent 4 years awsome years traveling the US and Canada (All expenses paid).
We were climbing out of Detroit City Airport headed south so I was riding the jump seat between the Captian and Copiliot. My job would start when we hit our crusing altitude, seeing to the passengers. The Copilot observed a passenger jet climbing out of Detroit Metro and coming right at us! At that time Cleveland (UGH!!) controled departures from DTW.
The Captian asked Cleveland if we had any traffic to be aware of, "NO" was the answer! Ok, we continued to watch the DTW traffic grow closer and closer! Again we were advised that no traffic was in our air space! The Captian, being a ex B17 pilot from WW2 lowered the nose and flatened out our climb out. As the DTW jet crossed at 12 O;clock high Cleveland woke up and advised us of "Traffic at 12 O;clock"!
I always wonder, what if we had been in IFR conditions with limited visibility!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jack Hise

It was in the late summer of '68. Late afternoon on a clear and sunny day. I was flying my last trip as a 3rd Crew Member on a corporate plane. Next week I'd be starting a new job as a Quality Control Engineer in one of the manufacturing plants. Life was good, I was 24 years old and had just spent 4 years awsome years traveling the US and Canada (All expenses paid).
We were climbing out of Detroit City Airport headed south so I was riding the jump seat between the Captian and Copiliot. My job would start when we hit our crusing altitude, seeing to the passengers. The Copilot observed a passenger jet climbing out of Detroit Metro and coming right at us! At that time Cleveland (UGH!!) controled departures from DTW.
The Captian asked Cleveland if we had any traffic to be aware of, "NO" was the answer! Ok, we continued to watch the DTW traffic grow closer and closer! Again we were advised that no traffic was in our air space! The Captian, being a ex B17 pilot from WW2 lowered the nose and flatened out our climb out. As the DTW jet crossed at 12 O;clock high Cleveland woke up and advised us of "Traffic at 12 O;clock"!
I always wonder, what if we had been in IFR conditions with limited visibility!!

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Jack, There probably wouldn't be as many furled leaders in the world :lol:

I decided to let this post run for a while before responding. I was an Enlisted Aerial Observer in the U.S. Army during the cold war. Most of the time we were just boring holes in the sky but since we were rapid deployment force we got sent out to support special ops. Some of those missions got real hairy but the most dangerous missions were flown into bad weather. You can shoot at a human to stop them from killing you but mother nature don't care about bullets.


I am not going to elaborate on any of the flights I had. I am thankful that I was able to come through them in good physical condition. I agree with your being upset and complaining about how the airlines treated you. The problem is air travel has become too readily available to us so we tend to abuse it. There are just too many numbers of aircraft in our skies now at any given time. Sooner or later the law of averages will catch up to us and a major mid air or runway accident will happen. Unfortunately, that is what it takes to get the public to act in this country and not just complain. For the sake of your own conscience, write your congressperson and pressure them to get control of the FAA. Pressure them to change the law to reduce the number of flights at any given time in our airspace. The poor customer service you got is a warning sign that the resources of the airlines and supporting infrastructure are being spread dangerously thin.

Unless they build the high speed bullet trains rail is just too slow to be an option in the world we live in, especially from a business point of view. Even though airport facilities are getting dated and pushed to their limits the rail infrastructure is still in much worse condition. We can't keep highway bridges from collapsing so what makes anyone think we can keep rail bridges from collapsing and the rail beds from failing. Yes, the rail companies a very particular about maintenance but the hard times that they have suffered financially have taken their toll on the rail operators too.

Still, when it's all said and done, the people on four airplanes on 9/11/01 had a far worse flight than we have had.

Just my humble opinion.http://bestsmileys.com/talking/14.gif

http://bestsmileys.com/christmas1/21.gif

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Originally Posted by Jack Hise

It was in the late summer of '68. Late afternoon on a clear and sunny day. I was flying my last trip as a 3rd Crew Member on a corporate plane. Next week I'd be starting a new job as a Quality Control Engineer in one of the manufacturing plants. Life was good, I was 24 years old and had just spent 4 years awsome years traveling the US and Canada (All expenses paid).
We were climbing out of Detroit City Airport headed south so I was riding the jump seat between the Captian and Copiliot. My job would start when we hit our crusing altitude, seeing to the passengers. The Copilot observed a passenger jet climbing out of Detroit Metro and coming right at us! At that time Cleveland (UGH!!) controled departures from DTW.
The Captian asked Cleveland if we had any traffic to be aware of, "NO" was the answer! Ok, we continued to watch the DTW traffic grow closer and closer! Again we were advised that no traffic was in our air space! The Captian, being a ex B17 pilot from WW2 lowered the nose and flatened out our climb out. As the DTW jet crossed at 12 O;clock high Cleveland woke up and advised us of "Traffic at 12 O;clock"!
I always wonder, what if we had been in IFR conditions with limited visibility!!

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Jack,
Great Story!!! I'm glad your still here.
Doug

I am not a good fly-er. I don't panic but I am stressed out during the entire flight. Having said that I realize that you are safer in a commercial jetliner than almost any where else. Air travel statistically is the safest method of getting around including walking to your destination.

Jack.... I cannot believe that your pilot did not warn both ATC and the other pilot of a possible conflict. I was a Flight service specialist for 35 years and I know that as soon as a conflict is recognised ATC has to re route the involved aircraft immediately. The more warning he has the safer and easier that emergency re-routing will be. If the other aircraft is unaware of a conflict and suddenly spots it , His reaction may cause a violent maneuver into further danger.

6 times during my career I have had to advise pilots of light aircraft to put their wheels down prior to landing. I worked in the tower for the last 14 years of my career and we always checked incoming aircraft as they crossed the perimeter fence on final approach. Most wheels up landings are walked away from but the resulting shortening of the propellers cause the aircraft come to a halt on the runway restricting further flight that day.

One day we were watching a C-130 Hercules doing L.A.P.E.S. (Low Altitude Parachute Extraction System) cargo drops. The drop zone was a tight unimproved strip at Fort Hood, Tx and I mean tight. The approach to the drop zone was straight in but the egress was up and to the right. The aircraft made a perfect drop but on egress the nose came up and right wingtip struck the ground. The C-130 cartwheeled and disintegrated killing all aboard but the jump master/ load master. He was standing on the ramp of the airplane and got ejected up into the air. There was just enough time for him to pull his chute and avoid a full speed splat with the ground. He was badly wounded but survived.

In 1983 an aircraft from this base; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountai...Air_Force_Base helped me become the most infamous vacation person at work. I had nightmares for years afterward and imagined all kinds of things I'd like to do to the F-4 Phantom Pilot responsible. But I'm over all that now. We had 230 Employees where I worked and I am afraid almost all of them asked me to tell my vacation story. It got so bad that I refused to tell the story except to "Groups"
Here is a photo of the aircraft; http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft...r/f4/f4_07.jpg This is the First view I got when the Phantom flew over my head at less than 500 ft. My world came to a standstill, partially because of these fine folks at General Electric; http://www.geae.com/engines/military/j79/index.html That's right! TWO J79 Engines Thrust Range- 17,820- 18,730 lbs. EACH! I am very much of the opinion that the J79 Engine was very very baddddd! In every book I've ever read about F-4 Phantoms in Vietnam, the Pilots were just as concerned about their gas guzzling, smokey engines as getting shot down by anti-aircraft batteries. When the F-4 was based here at Portland NG Base, you could hear those idiotic engines 15 miles away! Screech! Screech! when the Pilot applied power coming in for a landing. I do think they are a cool combat aircraft.
At that moment I was in a little ten foot boat and all of a sudden the noise filled my ears and I let go of the outboard tiller handle, the back wash from the practically braking on water, hit the transom and ripped the outboard motor OFF the transom and I actually witnessed the outboard motor fly through the air! I looked down and on the floor of the boat I noticed the gas line had neatly separated from the motor. In a few minutes the F-4 Phantom Pilot came back and banked to take a look at me, sort of like this; http://www.1000pictures.com/view.htm....jpg+x640+y422 I was in to much shock to shake my fist at him, but I was stranded 15 miles in the middle of no where! God bailed me out of my predicament and I returned home safely.
Vacation Damage
Ski Boat with prop that came off when I reversed the inboard outdrive.
Ten ft. boat with missing outboard (boat was borrowed).
75 bucks to the drunken guy who towed the Ski Boat.
When I got the Ski Boat home it had a hole in the hull.
When I think of my horrible planning of that vacation, it makes me infuriated! http://smilies.vidahost.com/cwm/3dlil/mad.gif
Doug :D

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Originally Posted by DShock

In 1983 an aircraft from this base; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountai...Air_Force_Base helped me become the most infamous vacation person at work. I had nightmares for years afterward and imagined all kinds of things I'd like to do to the F-4 Phantom Pilot responsible. But I'm over all that now. We had 230 Employees where I worked and I am afraid almost all of them asked me to tell my vacation story. It got so bad that I refused to tell the story except to "Groups"
Here is a photo of the aircraft; http://www.aerospaceweb.org/aircraft...r/f4/f4_07.jpg This is the First view I got when the Phantom flew over my head at less than 500 ft. My world came to a standstill, partially because of these fine folks at General Electric; http://www.geae.com/engines/military/j79/index.html That's right! TWO J79 Engines Thrust Range- 17,820- 18,730 lbs. EACH! I am very much of the opinion that the J79 Engine was very very baddddd! In every book I've ever read about F-4 Phantoms in Vietnam, the Pilots were just as concerned about their gas guzzling, smokey engines as getting shot down by anti-aircraft batteries. When the F-4 was based here at Portland NG Base, you could hear those idiotic engines 15 miles away! Screech! Screech! when the Pilot applied power coming in for a landing. I do think they are a cool combat aircraft.
At that moment I was in a little ten foot boat and all of a sudden the noise filled my ears and I let go of the outboard tiller handle, the back wash from the practically braking on water, hit the transom and ripped the outboard motor OFF the transom and I actually witnessed the outboard motor fly through the air! I looked down and on the floor of the boat I noticed the gas line had neatly separated from the motor. In a few minutes the F-4 Phantom Pilot came back and banked to take a look at me, sort of like this; http://www.1000pictures.com/view.htm....jpg+x640+y422 I was in to much shock to shake my fist at him, but I was stranded 15 miles in the middle of no where! God bailed me out of my predicament and I returned home safely.
Vacation Damage
Ski Boat with prop that came off when I reversed the inboard outdrive.
Ten ft. boat with missing outboard (boat was borrowed).
75 bucks to the drunken guy who towed the Ski Boat.
When I got the Ski Boat home it had a hole in the hull.
When I think of my horrible planning of that vacation, it makes me infuriated! http://smilies.vidahost.com/cwm/3dlil/mad.gif
Doug :D

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Doug,
sorry about your vacation and bad encounter with the Fox-4, F-4 Phantom II. I saw a few have worse encounters with that bird but then they should not have been enemies of freedom. :wink: