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probably opening a can of worms here...... what defines a Catskill fly? call me a rookie (because i am lol) but i have never even heard this term before coming here... and why not, what do you guys think? hows my tyin' for only goin' at it for about 1 1/2months?
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ill post a few more
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ok that enough lol so?
Here we go.
Catskill refers to a style of dry fly designed to imitate mayfly duns. Development occured roughly between 1900 and 1950 (off the top of my head without looking it up). This hotbed of tying activity took place in the Catskill region of New York.
http://www.danica.com/flytier/dbrandt/dbrandt.htm
Dave Brandt is probably today's most well-known proponent of the style.
Generally speaking, the catskill has a spade hackle tail equal to the length of the hook shank. Usually a dubbed body (although stripped peacock herl is used on a quill gordon). A hackle collar equal to about 1 1/14 of the hook gape and a wing that's the length of the shank (about 1 1/2 the hook gape). True purists leave the area just behind the eye completely bare (supposedly to attache a turl knot).
The wing is usually (but not always) wood duck fibers tied in a split manner.
I'd define a Catskill fly as:
one I tie poorly that ends up being a wet fly after a cast or two
In the right hands they're beautiful flies to behold.
Regards,
Scott
i have notice all of the Catskill flies ive run across so far have their wings upright, or slightly forward, never back... is the coincidence? or trait?
That's a trait.
hence the mayfly variation... any specific hook size standard? (this i mainly ask because im gonna give 1 a go right now lol)
Definitely a trait. Wings are tied in tips forward and then stood up straight. They eventually tip forward again.Quote:
Originally Posted by spoof85
I've never heard of one.Quote:
Originally Posted by spoof85
ya know the major downfall to only tying for a month or so is the lack of materials... and quality, all i have to do is whipfinish and... who an i kidding, the hackle is horrible... ill post a pic in a minute
Honestly, I thought it was a major step trying to tackle an Adams or similar type dry. I really had to screw up my courage.Quote:
Originally Posted by spoof85
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damn, looks a hell of alot better in the clamp not blown up! lol
it is symmetrical, i couldn't get my camera to focus head on, not bad for a first attempt i guess....
i have a gap in the peacock hurl in the back, hackle pushing out the eye, way too much thread for the head.... lol
u see anything i missed?
hook:14
tail: hackle fiber
body:peacock hurl
hackle: olive
wing: Guinea hen plumes (all i had)
thread: 3/0
no wax
i actually didn't have any problems with an Adams, i think because the dubbing is there it helps lay the hackle right
wow taking a closer look..... i cant believe i posted that lol
You are getting there! One suggestion....when learning, I would skip the laquering of the abdomen. A single (very light) brush stroke over the herl suffices. But for learning of proportions, it's not needed.
Otherwise...you are coming along very nice.
I hate naturally talented people.Quote:
Originally Posted by spoof85
i wouldnt say natural talent... i dunno i picked up a hook one day, stole some yarn from the wife..a chunk of fur from the cat... rubberband... played magyver for about 20 minutes, had a decent (believe it or not)looking fly, desided it was time to acually get real tools lol now i just want a rotating vise...Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven
thanks for the tip, weather its proportionally correct or not ill use it, if not me i have 2 friends (like myself) getting into fly fishing this year, i did notice i got some lacquer in the hackle though.... it'll make a good tree ornament soon.lol
the actual reason i started doing that was because my vise is a cheap piece of crap, and sometimes the eye will start to angle down (trust me i got it tight as it will go) and a chaotic unraveling occurs, i started putting a single hitch while i wrap materials in to stop that also, but habits are habits, getting your proportions right is defiantly a pain though.... that's what i get for jumping from scud to salmon dresser to dry, and so forth right? lol
spoof,
Before tackling this 'never ending question',(generally, it seems to come up at least 1x per year) which of the following are you asking:
1. What is a 'Catskill fly'? OR,
2. What is the 'Catskill style'?
Clarify and you may find more people willing to offer their opinion and historical perspective.
Allan
thanks Allan, the thread was headed way off topic...:)
well originally it was what is the fly, and from what i have gathered it is more of a style then a classification, correct? from what i gather it is mainly variations of the mayfly...
with that in mind, the question would be#2 what is the Catskill style....
i had honestly never heard the term before this bb
No worries, your pattern is more than fishable. Fish don't really care about our pattern "correctness". :)
o most defiantly, did u ever sit down and really study an 2 insects of the same species... hell... same hatch? they are all alittle different... they don't care, they are hungry!
catskill style;
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I would define the Catskill style as a pattern which has a stiff tail, stiff hackle and upright divided wings which, when tied correctly (in proportions of length of material) forms a "float line" when sitting atop the water: Tail tips, bottom of barb of hook, and tips of the hackle. The divided wing material should be about 20% higher than the hackle tips.
Okay spoof. I'll try and tackle your question. However, I'm fairly sure there'll be others who have some other definition of the two(2) terms I am about to 'tackle'(pun intended).
1. Catskill 'STYLE' - Basically what Byron said in his reply. More often then not the divided wings are woodduck(or substitute). A couple of patterns call for mallard flank.
Hook - I don't recall the brand(Nyack?) that preceeded Mustad but those 2 companies basically set the standard insofar as hook dimensions.
Wing - Usually woodduck but some other feathers too. Upright and divided(had originally been a clump).
Height = back of eye to bend of hook(almost as tall as the tail is long).
Tail - Stiff hackle, usually from spade feather. Length = front of eye to the far end of the bend of hook.
Body - Dubbed fur, floss or stripped quill(peacock or hackle).
Hackle - Good quality stiff barbs. Height = 1-1/2 to 2 times the gap of hook.
2. Catskill 'FLY' - Basically a fly pattern that was originally designed to be fished on Catskill waters. They may or may not be in the Catskill 'style'. A few examples of flies in this catagory include: the Dette and the Darbee Coffin flies, 2 feather fly, Hewitt (Neversink)Skater, Bivisible, Bumblepuppy, Black Nose Dace, caddises by Len Wright, riffle dun, and there are many others.
I think if you had to find one, and only one, commonality among all of these it would be the use of 'natural' materials. However, the use of some synthetics or substitute materials is not a disqualifying attribute.
Hope this somewhat clears up the terms.
OH - Good start with your flies.
Allan
The hook that was preferred was an Allcock.
If you can get some 6 or 8/0 thread your heads will turn out smaller and better.
Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words. Here is a collection of Catsill pics.
http://home.comcast.net/~rlonghunter...685de9be0401f0
Catskill-style flies originated, of all places, in the Catskills, no less, probably beginning with Theodore Gordon's tying of the the "Quill Gordon" dry fly in the late 1800's.
While you can probably find a lot of information on this style of tying, here's just one link with a bit of information: http://www.catskillmtn.org/guide-mag...-fly-tier.html
thanks guys, defiantly cleared that up for me lol
From the Catskill fly tyers guild website:
Catskill Style involves tradition and discipline regarding proportion and choice of materials. This doctrine has been concisely defined for us by Harry Darbee in his book "Catskill Flytier":
"Its characteristics: a good sized hook, typically size 12 Model Perfect, a notably lean spare body, usually spun fur or stripped quill of peacock herl; a divided wing of lemon colored mottled barbules of a woodduck flank feather; a few sparse turns of incredibly stiff, clean, glassy cock's hackle, mostly either blue dun or ginger.
The wings and hackle are set back from the eye of the hook, leaving an unusually long clean "neck" at the expense of a slightly shortened body."
If you're interested in studying "Catskill Style" further I would definitely suggest reading 'Tying Catskill-Style Dry Flies' by Mike Valla. Not only a good source of information regarding some of the patterns found but a very good history of the Catskill region, it's fishermen and tyers. I live in upstate NY about 4 hours from the Cats and NEVER realized the rich history found there.