Prepare bucktail

Hi all,
I just got a deer tail from a friend this morning. I need to get directions on how to prepare it for use!!
Thanks,
Mike

Is it fresh from a hunting harvest and is the tail bone still in the tail?

Yes - fresh about 14 hours, bone in, just the tail!
Thanks,
Mike

Kicking in on Bass_Bugs ?? If it's fresh and the bone is still in they here's my way of getting it ready. Get a really SHARP knife, or really good sharp pair of scissors and I cut in a straight line on the underside of the tail all the way to the tip. Usually after this you can use a pair of vise grips and hook on to the bony part and peel it right out.

Take your sharp knife and scrape off all the fat you can without damaging the tail. Next using warm water and dawn dishwashing detergent wash it really well making sure to get any and all blood off of it, and rinse it well. This next step is a personal one I use and you can skip it if want but I like doing it: use unscented hair conditioner on the tail and then rinse it really well, take an old hair brush and brush the hair straight.

The next step I take is lay it flat on paper towels front and back and I press out as much water as I can (I've also heard of some who use a hair dryer to get alot of the water off but use a low setting). After that I put it on an old piece of plywood and use three pushpins one on each corner and one down near the tip and cover it with borax laundry detergent (some folks like to use salt, I've tried it and like the borax better).

Leave it in a dry place where no kids or animals can get it, check it every couple of days and if you see any wet spots on the borax use a spoon to get that clump off put some fresh on that spot. I usually leave mine for two weeks then I take all the borax off and check the tail. If you can't feel any wetness and the meaty side is totally dry and stiff you should be ready to go. I put mine in a zip lock bag with a piece of flea collar (usually the pet stores put ones just about to expire on sale and I buy a bunch to use, open one stretch it to activate and cut a piece about
1 1/2) and then it stays away from all my other tying supplies for three or four weeks or more, kinda like a quarantine period.

Usually after this, I make a check of it and then it goes in with my other stuff. Never had any go bad or spoil and only a few went back through the wash, dry, borax cycle.

I learned most of it between Eric Leisers book Fly tying materials and info from different boards. Good luck and if you have any more questions just ask.

Fatman

Thanks Fatman! I have the tail at work, the book at home and wanted to put the two together! I'll get on it this afternoon. I'll keep you folks posted as this is my first try!
Mike

Fatman pretty much summed it up. I've dried complete deer hides with salt and borax. Both work.

-If you use salt, you'll need to replace the salt once it's all wet and feels like wet sand (every couple days at first). Scrape off the wet salt and let the wet salt dry out in another place and put fresh salt on the tail. You can re-use the salt this way.

-If you use borax, borax doesn't seem to adsorb the moisture like salt, but will dry the raw hide just fine. Where the moisture goes is still a mystery. Borax seems less messy because of this, but salt is much cheaper. Both work. An oscillating fan in the area to keep the air moving around it will help some too. The main factor that will determine how long it takes is the relative humidity. The first deer hide I did (with salt) was in an unheated garage in early December, the weather stayed above freezing and rainy for the first couple of weeks. Obviously wet things take much longer to dry out in these conditions.

The only difference I have with Fatman's method is that I wont use Dawn or any other 'detergent' on hair. I only use shampoo and conditioner. My feeling is if you wont wash your own hair in it, you shouldn't use it on natural material like this. For those that say say Dawn is safe, I say use it on your own hair and see how your hairs feels afterward. If you're unwilling to use Dawn in your shower what does that tell you about how harsh it really is. I still say if Dawn will dissolve crude oil, what do you think it does to the natural oils in hair? In living animals natural oil is replenished through the body. In harvested animal hides, any natural oil lost in the cleaning process will never be replaced, and using oil dissolving detergents just makes it worse.

I know, I know, there are many people that have been using Dawn for years and never had any problems, but if that's the only way you've been doing it then you don't know how much softer the hair would have been by using shampoo instead.

Ewwwww! Ya lost me at this ... "after this you can use a pair of vise grips and hook on to the bony part and peel it right out".

Okay, tail bone out, run knife a number of times over tail, nailed to board, salted, no Borax at school, let's see what happens! Thanks all!
Mike

Never never use salt on a hide to be used for fly tying. PERIOD. The worst thing you can do to a hide us use salt on it. Salt draws moisture out of the air and makes a soggy mess out of the hide. It also will be absorbed into the hair and hooks that that hair is tied onto will rust in the box. If you are preserving the hide to go to the tanners then it doesn't make any difference. Only use borax if the weather is warm enough for the flies to be out. The hide will dry just fine without using salt or borax.

Dawn is the best detergant to use to wash a hide with. I have used shampoo, both adult and baby, and it doesn't do the job that dawn does. You are washing off the surface grease. The natural oils are permiated into the hair and will not be washed out with a washing of Dawn. You don't need any conditioner either.

I have been doing animal skins for over 50 years. I think I just might have enough experiance in this area to to be able to give some sound advice.

fishbum

I wash my hair with "Head & Shoulder", I also use "Head & Shoulders" when washing any ofmy fly tying hair material that has started having a foul scent. I add a small dab of "Oil of Olay" to the mix to help neutralize scents that fish can detect, but humans cannot (has something to do with turtle oil in the "Oil of Olay".

Parnelli

What fishbum said...

Salt on tying materials is a huge mistake!

Letting the skin dry with the salt is not a problem, but the salt MUST be washed out before the hair gets used for fishing.

The only point I have a mild disagreement with in fishbum's excellent post is the borax use only in fly season... I always use borax and often tumble skins in borax and sawdust to clean and polish it after washing.
art

Bass Bug - If I get another tail I'll try the shampoo instead of the Dawn and then compare the two.

Betty - Sorry LOL yeah it does sound bad

I'm a complete ameature on this stuff and I've only done about 20 deer tails, 3 muskrat skins and a rabbit skin and knock on wood no major disasters LOL so more info is always good!!!!!

Thanks All

Fatman

I must take exception to fishbum's admonition that salt is the worst thing you can put on a hide. If you stop and think about it, hunters in the field, our initial source of raw hides for the materials in the shops, traditionally use salt to 'preserve' the hide until they can get it to a hide buyer or taxidermist, and have been doing this for hundreds of years. I have first hand knowledge of this as I have visited a hide buyer's 'shop' in Wyoming during the elk/deer hunting season, and all of the hides he had on hand had been field salted. The majority of such hides delivered to a taxidermist have been salted, and what better cheap source of various types of hide than the cutoffs from a taxidermist; which ofttimes have not yet been tanned! There is an element of truth in his admonition, but it is readly corrected. The hide can absorb some of the salt, which can lead to hook rusting, if not removed. I have done numerous deer hides over in the past 40 years, not to mention squirrels, and even a very large Norway Rat (GREAT substitute for muskrat for the Adams pattern). All of these hides were salt cured, then washed to remove blood, dead vermin, etc., thoroughly rinsed, then re-stretched on the curing board to dry. The board is always propped up at about a 60 degree angle to facilitate drainage of the excess water, and placed in a sunny, breezy area to dry, which can occur in just a day or so, depending upon the humidity. And yes, I live in an extremely humid area; Houston, Texas! The hides DO NOT rot while drying.

His comment that the salt absorbs moisture out of the air has some validity to it, depending upon the relative humidity; but, it is also absorbing the water and blood out of the hide. The moisture in the air is NOT what causes the salt to turn red; it is the moisture AND blood that has been absorbed out of the hide that causes this color change.

My 40 years of experience, and knowledge of the 'chemical' process involved, is also worth something.

I have NEVER had a hook rusting problem where any of my salt cured materials have been used. And I have tied thousands of such flies over the past 40 years.

aged sage

Hi All,

I am pretty much with Fatman on this. A couple of thoughts to add, though. When Fatman talks about Borax Laundry Detergent he is talking about "20 Mule Team Borax", which is actually a pretty good grade of Borax, which is used as a laundry additive, and it has no soap or detergent in it. Other products, such as "Boraxo" have detergents and or soaps in them, and are not suitable for use on hides.

I have salted hides of various types going back 40 years, and salt does a good job of preserving the hide. On the other hand, I now believe Borax is much better for preserving a hide for fly tying, because of the corrosive nature of salt.

I do know a thing or two about salt and it's use also, as I was the quality control and lab manager of a major salt company for a number of years. If used carefully, and thoroughly washed from the hair before the fly is put away, it is fine. That said, I do not want loose grains of salt falling off of a skin and into my fly tying stuff, or on my fly tying desk where it can lead to corrosion, so I have gone to Borax.

Salt is inexpensive, and is excellent for preserving hides for processing. A huge amount of it are used on cattle hides, and also deer hides by hunters, and for that purpose, I believe it is the best choice, if you look at the cost to benefits ratio. However, again, for fly tying one box of 20 Mule Team Borax will do all of the animal hides that I need for fly tying for a very very long time.

For what it's worth, I also use Dawn or other detergents, just whatever my wife has in the house at the time. Shampoo will also remove the natural oils from hair, just as will Dawn, and in fact that is one of it's major functions. In that respect they are not really different at all.

Regards,

Gandolf

You guys are right about salting hides. If you look at my post you will note that I said hides going to the tanners it dosn't matter.

I must tell you that I have handled hides that number many thousands. As a trapper I had my own fur to take care of. In addition to my own game I worked during trapping season for a local fur buyer skinning game. The raw fur was not salted.

You can do as you will, It really makes no difference to me. I just don't like to see people do work on skins they don't have to do. for flytying pourposes I maintain that you should wash, rinse, scrape, 2nd wash, rinse, partially dry, streatch and finish drying.

fishbum

I'm still having trouble with the image of Drill Sgt. Parnelli using Oil of Olay. :)