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Anybody have any suggestions for stonefly patterns for the east? I've looked at several on here and elsewhere but it seems like most are targeted for the western waters. I'm looking for both nymph and dry patterns.. emergers, if they're a viable fly. Thanks in advance!!!
Google Eastern Stone Fly patterns and I think you can find what you are looking for.
Hope this helps
:D
hazmat, As far as the larger eastern adult Stoneflies go. From what I understand the larger adults emerge and egg lay mostly at night. I have never seen the larger stones during the day in good numbers, only a straggler from time to time. It would not hurt to keep a few large dry imitaions in your box but I would focus more on the smaller stoneflies (nymphs and adults) and nymph imitations for the larger stones. But if you fish at night,well that could be a different story.
Later, Jim
Thanks, all.. I believe I've found what I was looking for!
Stimulator tied to match the adult stoneflies in your area. The stimulator is a east coast pattern. Born on the Musconetcong River in New Jersey.
Did you look at the Fly of the Week for this week?
Haz-
The first ones to come off in your area PA, NY, CT etc. will probably be Little Brown Stones probably sizes 14 and 20 and then Early Black Stones in 14, 16 and 20. (The browns will usually start popping around Mid March and the blacks thru April on the west branch of the delaware around Hancock. Shift timming back about 3 weeks for the Adirondacks, and maybe move it up 2 weeks for PA.
They usually come off in the mornings 9:00ish to 12:00ish. Look for the nymphs on rocks in arewas with slow moving water and gravel/cobble bottoms.
The stonefly nymphs actually crawl out of the water on to the rocks (and sometimes your waders so check) and then "hatch" into the adults, rather than splitting out of their nymphal shucks into adults in the water. As far as I know, there are no emerger patterns for stoneflies.
Although more exact patterns can be found on FAOL for these, I fish an Elk Hair Caddis with DARK deer hair or dyed black elk hair wings and dark brown or black dubbing for the body and grizzly hackle (black would be better probably). I also tie up some without hackle using dyed deer hair with the "wing" tied less upright than a normal Elk Hair Caddis, with the hair kinda pushed down both sides of the shank to float it (for slow water). Seems to work for me, though I don't target that hatch specifically.
I also fish large weighted black stone nymphs up to size 10-6 in riffles (nothing fancy since you'll lose them on rocks, I use AK Best's "Big Ugly Stone Fly Nymph" as a pattern, found in AK Fly Box. These nymphs imitate the large stones that come off in evenings in June, around the time the Green Drakes start coming off. They have a several year life cycle, so are found in the stream in a lot of different sizes, all year long. I mostly fish them between mayfly hatches if there is nothing going on. The big ones (Acuneria and Pterynarsus I think) are mostly night time action (at dark thirty) for the adults on the water. Big Stimulators, size 6 or so work for this, as do some of the western patterns. Skitter them around on heavy leaders if you dare. Look for the adults in the daylight in grasses and underside of leaves. If you see them think about missing dinner and fishing in the dark till 10PM, because chances are good they'll be hitting the water. They move very large fish, and strikes are savage.
You may also run into Yellow Stones (Chloroperla), size 12 and 14 (sporadically in July Aug Sept around Hancock). A Yellow Stone nymph and a Yellow Stimulator for the dry should cover it. The adults start hitting the water in the afternoon.
Some green stonefly nymphs and green stimulators for the dries covers green stoneflies if you have them in your area.
Hope this helps.
peregrines
Haven't yet, but I will now. Thanks, LF..Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyFisher
Peregrines.. wow.. thanks for the education! I've been reading Hughes' "Handbook of Hatches" which helps out a ton on this stuff for a relative new guy, but it's going to be pored over many times before the information actually settles in permanently.
I actually started tying caddis patterns exactly as you mentioned last night. Every place I've looked and read mentions the exact same thing, so why not? Besides, I really enjoy tying caddis patterns, for some reason. Thanks again for the info!
Hazmat,
When tying the Stimulator you might want to try with the finished results to look something like this:
http://www.jimsflyco.com/assets/images/stimi1.jpg
http://www.jimsflyco.com/assets/images/stimi2.jpg
It is a little different from the commercialized version popular today. The differences being A dubbed head in front of the thorax hackle, a straight profile, little to no taper on the abdomen and thorax/head and the Wing tied in at the half way point of the hook, do not stack the wing but manually remove any wild hair or close to it. This will give your dressed fly a more realistic silhouette. Remember also that a lot of adult stone flies have a different color abdomen than their thorax/ head undersides. Hope this helps.
Jim
Anyone have any ideas related to a good "simple" pattern to imitate the midwestern stoneflys found here in the midwest? Midwest being Missouri, Tennessee. I'd like to identify a good pattern for the black and lighter versions of stonefly nymphs found here.
Thanks,
jman
Haz-
Yeah, even though adult stones have wings that lie flat on their backs, when they're in the water they often look "buzzy" with wings fluttering, so in smaller sizes, up to 12, the elk hair caddis is a good imitation. For all practical purposes you can use the same pattern for adult Early Brown and Early Black stones (Taeniopteryx sp)in 14 and 16. The same pattern in size 20 actually imitates the Tiny Black Stone (Capnidae).
For larger adult stones I'd go with a beefier body as found in the Stimulators (Jim's looks GREAT!) or the Western Salmon fly types (with rubber legs for fishing the bigger ones at night).
Sizes that seem to work are Black Stone (Pteronarcys) in sizes 4 and 6 on 4x long hooks, Golden Stone (Acronuria) size 8 4x long, and Brown and Green Stones (Perlidae sp) in size 8 4x long.
These larger pattern can be dead drifted, but I like to fish them skittering around on the water. At night, fishing the big black ones I use rubber legs and lots of deer hair, short heavy leaders and really work them. (BTW,it's a good idea to have a head lamp with you to be able to turn on if you need it to find your way around etc.) Also watch out for beavers.... I had one swim right up right behind me on the west branch and slap his tail.... scared the bejeesus out of me.)
Nymphs are in the same sizes, but I don't spend much effort on super realistic patterns, since they're easily lost to rocks (and tree branches in my case). I lay a u shaped bend of wire along the sides to flatten the body (u near the eye). I usually tie them "production style" at a dozen or so at a time, and tie in the biots for the tail and lead or lead sub wire on all 12 and then coat with a couple of coats of head cement and let dry over night. Next day, I'll finish them with a yarn body, ribbing, one wing case of turkey or dyed goose wing (even though stoneflies have 2, I figure trout can't count) and some hackle or legs.
I pretreat whole goose or turkey quills with the "fix it" stuff artists use to spray over pastels and charcoal drawings to prevent smudges. You can find it at art stores. (Other folks use hairspray for the same purpose). This helps hold the quill together when cutting and keeps it together on the hook.
Next I wrap the yarn and rib for the abdomen roughly half way up the shank and tie in one end of the quill for the wing case and bind to one eye length of the eye leaving room for he head. The unbound part of the quill is pointed towards the rear of the hook.
Once the quill for the case is tied in (but before it's folded over), I tie in a partridge feather (for smaller nymphs) or a hen hackle for the larger ones. I tie the tip near the eye dull side up, and bind down with thread back to the end of the thorax. I apply some coarse dubbing to the thread, and work my way back up to the head. Pull the hackle forward and tie down. The barbs should be flowing back on each side of the hook glossy side up. Then pull the wing case forward and tie off, finish the head and whip. Once I've tied up a bunch, I apply epoxy, or a couple of coats of head cement to the back of the wing case. I don't fuss with antennae, eyeballs, license plates etc.
Sorry for the long explanation, pics would be a lot simpler, but I'm a bit of a luddite. Hope you can make sense of this.
Journeyman-
Sorry I don't know the hatches in your specific area. But, here's a great link for a hatch chart for Montauk state park in Missouri listing mayflies, caddis and stoneflies, their common and scientific names, time of year/day they come off, sizes and names of the nymph and dry patterns to imitate them.
You can search FAOL for tying instructions or google on the pattern. Rather than tie them all up, you might want to check in with your local fly shop to see which ones pop in your area.
http://www.missouriscenicrivers.com/hatchchart.html
Hope this helps. Good luck guys.
peregrines
Great information again, Peregrines. Thanks.
Haz,
I think you will have the most success fishing a nymph pattern.
I tie them in brown, brown/black, and black.
This link will show you the basic pattern.
These are the first patterns I try at the start of the season, besides the 'GRHE'...... :roll:
http://www.fishingwithflies.com/KaufmannStoneflies.html
Hay I used to fly fish in New Brunswick and have seen lots of size 6-12 black stones (nymph) in some of the larger rivers. I believe just about any suggestive black stone nymph would work. As long as it gets to the bottom of the river. Hope New Brunswick is east enough for ya...
I'm from SW PA and I've got to second everyone's opinion on the Stimulator. It work wonderfully for me. In fact, looking back on my fishing journal from last year, it was the most productive pattern for me.
Of course the sizes I use this pattern in are far smaller than they would use in the west. I tye it on the TMC #200R Hook down to size #18. The #18's imitate a black stonefly and a small green stonefly that hatch early in the Spring on a few streams here. I also use this fly as a searching pattern throughout the year. Because of it's buoyancy it is also a great fly to use to drop a nymph off of and use as an "indicator", which I do quite often. I usually tye Stimulator in sizes #10 through #18 in various colors. As an attractor I'm particularly fond of the "Royal" version - it's very productive and besides that, it's just a really pretty fly (pretty as far as stoneflys go anyway!). I use the #10's in late summer as a very effective Hopper pattern and tied in #12 in black it becomes a great cricket.
Hope this helps some.
-Darryl
Quill,
The Kaufman Stone pattern with the link you provided has a contact for the dubbing but its not current, can you suggest a possible supplier for the Golden Stone dubbing mentioned?
Thanks,
jman
Journeyman,
I use whatever synthetic dubbing I have, usually 'Hareline' or 'Universal Vise Corp.
The tyer C. Stewart Denton has his email listed on that page. You might try that.
Perhaps one of the sponsors here has it or you could try this place.
http://castlearms.com/fly_tying.html
Best wishes...
Thanks for the info regarding the dubbing, will try the Hareline.
jman
You have three dealers in Kansas that may have that material according to that website. You could call or email them, if you want that exact dubbing.
Every stream is different, so you have to try(experiment) with different materials to see what pattern works where you fish.
I think size and color are more important, but that's just my opinion........ :roll:
Let us know how it works out!
http://castlearms.com/dealers.html#anchor187716
See the current edition of Fly Tyer -- the bootlace flies are pretty neat, fun to tie and the lacing material is cheap
if you can - check out May 2007's Fly Fisherman - there's an article of shallow water stones. Black Keystone pattern and Golden Keystone patterns. I've used a pattern very very very similar with muchos success.
(there's also some Skip Morris patterns of his Anatomical Nymphs in there - cool patterns)
darrell,