First Cane Refinish Questions

Hi all -

I know there's probably been a ton of repetitive questions here regarding "newbies" refinishing a cane rod and I HAVE researched some of my questions but I apologize if I'm rehashing the same old same old...

Like many others I recently decided to play around with refinishing a cane rod so I picked up a South Bend 359-9 for a pretty cheap price. I just received it and actually am impressed it's in such good condition. No spare tip but the 3 pieces seem functionally sound and I could probably fish with it right now. But being that I picked this thing up to learn from here's what I've noticed and want to do to it.

1. Thread wraps while intact are UGLY. Each guide has a different wrap pattern which consist of separate 18" bands of different color threads i.e. 1/8" blue, 1/8" red, 1/8" yellow, etc. But there's nothing consistent. Also, only 6 guides on the rod and no stripper guide - actually no guide at all on the butt section of the rod; and no hookkeeper. I can't believe this is how the rod was mfg so I'm guessing it's been re-wrapped.

2. Handle is the 'comficient' model (I think) - it's gooved and has the thumb depression. No chunks of cork missing but it's sorta ugly. Not sure if could be cleaned. Reel seat seems decent albeit not very impressive looking.

2. Tip section has a slight "set" pointing to one side.

3. "click" when I flex the rod at the butt-2-middle ferrule. I think the joint is loose.

Since I want to learn here I'm thinking I want to take the rod completely down to bare cane and refinish from scratch. I've got a couple books ordered (haven't arrived yet) but here are the questions I have:

1. I'd like some recommendations where to go for parts ie guides, handle, reel seats, etc. I know there are many sponsors here but not exactly sure how specialized this all is so I want to get the right stuff. I'd like to get a pre-made handle rather than turning my own. As I want to fish this stick I'm planning on adding some additional guides and have found placement measurements here. I seem to remember reading about brass vs. chrome guides.

2. thread - I've been told that I should wrap with silk but I want to make sure the thread doesn't disappear when I apply the finish. I'm thinking a pretty traditional red or green thread wrap - not sure how fancy I want to get. Suggestions on thread?

3. Where's a good place to see pics of finished bamboo rods so I can get some ideas as to colors, layout, hardware options, etc? I'd especially like to see what this rod looked like from the factory.

4. do most people use the same 5-minute epoxy for the handle/reel seat that's used on graphite rods or is there something special to use here?

5. Varnishing - What's the best way to apply varnish to the rod if I don't want to build a dip tube? Would you suggest hanging the sections vertically and brushing on the coats of varnish? What about the spray versions? Is Varnish and Spar Varnish the same thing?

Thanks SO MUCH in advance for any replies. I'm looking forward to all this. Sorry this post is so long.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by skondolf

Since I want to learn here I'm thinking I want to tagot a couple books ordered (haven't arrived yet) but here are the questions ke the rod completely down to bare cane and refinish from scratch. I've I have:

1. I'd like some recommendations where to go for parts ie guides, handle, reel seats, etc. I know there are many sponsors here but not exactly sure how specialized this all is so I want to get the right stuff. I'd like to get a pre-made handle rather than turning my own. As I want to fish this stick I'm planning on adding some additional guides and have found placement measurements here. I seem to remember reading about brass vs. chrome guides.

2. thread - I've been told that I should wrap with silk but I want to make sure the thread doesn't disappear when I apply the finish. I'm thinking a pretty traditional red or green thread wrap - not sure how fancy I want to get. Suggestions on thread?

3. Where's a good place to see pics of finished bamboo rods so I can get some ideas as to colors, layout, hardware options, etc? I'd especially like to see what this rod looked like from the factory.

4. do most people use the same 5-minute epoxy for the handle/reel seat that's used on graphite rods or is there something special to use here?

5. Varnishing - What's the best way to apply varnish to the rod if I don't want to build a dip tube? Would you suggest hanging the sections vertically and brushing on the coats of varnish? What about the spray versions? Is Varnish and Spar Varnish the same thing?

Thanks SO MUCH in advance for any replies. I'm looking forward to all this. Sorry this post is so long.

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Hi, Welcome to the world of bamboo. That is quite a list of questions so let me start off by saying that there is a world of information on this site and lots of knowledgeable folks to help out. I am sure you will soon be buried in choices. You might start by searching the bamboo areas here.

As for your Questions:

1. PARTS. I would recommend Anglers Workshop where you can find everything you need and Golden Witch for the bamboo specific components. Also check the sponsors list on this site. They are all great. for guides I would go to Snake Brand. they are the recognized top of the line and have what you need in chrome, black, or bronze finish. Also some of the best strippers available.

2. THREAD: On bamboo I would definately go with silk. The standard is Pearsalls but Tire and Clover are a couple of other brands widely used. Keep in mind that if varnish is applied over silk it will change color and become translucent. If you don't want that effect the only option is to use a color preserver on the thread first. This can be a little tricky. If you don't get the thread sealed perfectly, the finish will be blotchy. What ever color you pick, practice a few wraps on a dowel complete with finish first to make sure it is what you want.

3. PICTURES: Search for "Clarks Classic Flyrod" site and the "Rod Building Forum"

4. EPOXY: The five minute type would work and lots of people use it but I would recommend U-40 Rod Bond. It has a long setup time and stays flexible after cure. I have had great results with it.

5. VARNISH: If you don't want to build a dip tube, there are some alternatives. You can brush, spray, or pour on the finish. All of these methods are subject to practice and variable results and are applied to the blank before the guides are wrapped and finished. As a first attempt I would suggest an alternative. Formsby's Tung Oil Finsh. This is a rub on varnish in a tung oil carrier. Rub it on vigorously and let dry. You will probably have to put on 5 to 7 coats before you get a suitable thickness built up but it will do a nice job without all the runs, drips, sags etc.

Spar varnish is a term that comes from the boat building trade. Generally varnish is a generic term and spar varnish is formulated for outdoor applications like boat decks. It has UV inhibitors in the formula.

I hope this gives you a place to start. It sounds like a great project.

Shaky gives you good advice.
For one stop shopping Anglersworkshop is good. Call for a print catalog. It's easier to look at the pics and see what you want.

Be careful removing the ferrules they may be pinned and that's a whole different lesson.

If you don't wnat to build a dip tube, think about sending the rod out to be varnished. I know a lot of refinish/restoreres, myself included, who do finish work on other peoples projects.

P.M. me if you have questions. I'll walk you through it.

Thanks for the replies. Both of you commented about the dip tube thing and my not wanting to build one. Can I assume I could make a dip tube out of pvc long enough to hold my rod sections? I was thinking more about the cost to fill it with varnish especially if this may be the only rod I ever build.

Maybe I'm totally off here and it isn't that expensive.

Hi and welcome - you have gotten some great advice, but one word of caution about silk thread - unless you have wrapped a lot of other rods, I find silk very difficult to work with, and you might want to try nylon instead, and Color Preserver will keep it from disappearing.
The set in the tip can be removed relatively easily by heating some sort of microwave heating pad in the MW then wrapping the offending area with the pad, then very gently "setting" it into the proper position until it cools. You may repeat if necessary.
As far as your finish goes, I have been using Birchwood Casey Tru Oil and it is so easy to use, every time I pass by, I just wet a shop towel(lint free) with the oil and run it up and down the rod. It dries in just a couple of hours, so can be repeated often. You do need about 12 coats, and a light scuffing with a 3M pad every 3-4 coats, but it is almost trouble-free.
As to your grip, you might consider re-shaping the present grip as though you were building it from scratch.
Good luck and have fun.

A dip tube doesn't have to be fancy or expensive. PVC pipe and a end cap is really all you need. The diameter only needs to be big enough to fit the rod into. It doesn't matter if the rod touches the sides except at the surface of the varnish or above. If you make the tube of 1" pipe with a slightly larger section at the very top, say 6" long, it will only take a quart of varnish to fill it.

You can use your fly reel and some chalk line to make a manual hoist. Just go slow. 2 - 4 inches per minute withdraw rate is typical.

If you can find a relatively dust free room with enough ceiling height to set it up in you can get great results with a simple set up.

Thread????
Having just sent out 4 rod that all came in total restorations I got to thinking about thread. One of the rods was wrapped in nylon the rest in silk. That nylon rod was much easier to wrap.
So just a thought, if this is your first time wrapping and you don't care about being original go nylon. If you do go with silk stay away from Persells "gossamer" this is not for the faint of heart or first timers. also check out "fish hawk" brand silk.
Let us all know how the project is going!

Thanks everyone for the replies so far. Great info!

2 more questions:

What's the issue with silk thread for wraps? I've wrapped a few graphite rods using nylon so I'm not a TOTAL newbie when it comes to that but have never used silk. Does it break easily? Fray? Hard to get the thread to lay down properly?

With graphite rods there's 2 schools of thought regarding finding the spine. Some say it's important and others suggest just building on the straightest axis. Is it necessary to find the spine on bamboo? The reason I ask is that the loose ferrule I mentioned seems to tighten up nicely if I spin the middle section a little. Being that I'm stripping the rod down anyways I was thinking of just turning the middle section and wrapping the guides on a different "plane" to eliminate the need to work on the ferrule. Is this a good idea?

I've got a couple books on order from Amazon and they should arrive any day so hopefully I'll be able to start the project soon. I'll try and post pics once I'm done.

Thanks again.

Wrapping silk vs. nylon is not that much different. Silk is a finer diameter. most good silk thread does not fray. Since it is finer you will have to be more diligent about packing it tight. Also make sure you have a good taper on the guide feet so the thread walks up them.
Silk and cane go together since they are both natural materials.

Spine... There seems to be the same two camps on bamboo spining as there is on graphite spineing. Franking in my opinion, I've never noticed the difference if the guides where on the spine or not. I've restored many a rod and more times than I can remember, after straightening the sections I've replaced the guides on the opposite site. many rods will get a fishing set. reversing the guides seems to help even things out.

I would suggest refitting the ferrules. a bandaid won't fix the problem.
regarding placement of the guides I was taught to place them on the straightest flat, which has served me well over the course of what 16 rods or so now...

Well I'm almost at the point of refinishing the rod and am just about ready to order parts. I do have a friend who has a spare butt section for this rod and if I can get it from him I plan on making the full 9' rod and cutting down the 2nd butt section to make a banty. I think I'm going to wrap with Pearsall's silk - I know some have suggested this is more difficult but I want to give it a try.

One seemingly simple question - will one spool of Pearsalls Gossamer be enough to finish a 9' rod with snake guides? I'm wondering as I know the silk is smaller diamater than nylon and will take more wraps and the Pearsalls spools hold less. As I have to order the silk I want to make sure I get enough.

I guess I could always use the leftover on some Wets/Flymphs.

One more thing I learned when I was refinishing my SB290, you can set the grip and reel seat in place, but don't cement them until you have the guides on, not before(obvious if you think about it, but I didn't). Same thing with the tip top. I'm being a little more careful about it with this new rod.

I recently did a 7ft - 6in two tip rod with one spool of pearsalls silk. Thats 14 guides. Still had quite a bit left. You should be fine if you don't have too many do-overs.

The most common silk thread to use, which is they type we carry, is 3/0, which is half the diameter of regular nylon "A" thread. This means that you'll have to put twice as much on each wrap. Nylon is definitely easier for "newbies." We sell FishHawk silk, which is made by YLI in Japan. Some people find the Gossamer difficult to use because it is most commonly found in 6/0, which is very fragile.

You can put a hand rubbed finish on the rod in either satin or glossy. If so, you won't have to mess with a dip tube. PVC is fine if you choose to build a tube. The "pros" hoist the blank out of the tube slowly, just an inch or two per minute!!

I'd first try to clean up the old grip before bothering with a new one.

I always, ALWAYS, say "don't make yourself crazy!" You can study details and get opinion for months, and all it does is inhibit you from starting because you're afraid something won't be quite right. Build the rod, learn from your mistakes, form your own opinions and then give it another try!

There is no perfect way!

Ron -

Thanks everyone for all the replies.

Ron I agree, I sometimes drive myself crazy asking, asking, asking but I guess that's my nature. It also serves me well in my job so I guess it just spills over. I guess I just want to make sure I'm following a "tried-n-true" process and look for consensus among "you guys" who've done this before.

I should be just about at the point to order necessary hardware and finish this puppy up. I'll be sure to post pics when I'm done.

Thanks again.

some quick thoughts to add to the excellent advice.

Don't worry about the silk at all, use the gossamer 6/0. perversely I find it easier to do a good wrap with gossamer than nylon. Nylon, because of its diameter leaves a visible bump, no matter how well you trim and slip the tag end. Get a burnishing tool (I love my agate one from GW). It makes the thread lie flat and tight.

As for finish, skip the varnish and use a rub-on like Tru-Oil. You have a very low probability of getting the dip and extraction rate correct on your first rod, whereas the rub-ons are almost impossible to screw up. For more insight, read the following pages on bamboo rod finishing...http://www.bamboorodmaking.com/index.html