I need opinions on these vices. Looking to buy one and have narrowed it down to these
Danvice
Anvil Apex
Griffin Odyssey Spider
Thoughts, experience, opinions with these vices.
Thanks
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I need opinions on these vices. Looking to buy one and have narrowed it down to these
Danvice
Anvil Apex
Griffin Odyssey Spider
Thoughts, experience, opinions with these vices.
Thanks
I have owned an anvil, workhorse of a vise. Not much in the way of looks. Kind of rough in overall finish. Ie some sharp edges on the jaws. Sold it but wish i did not now that my daughter is interested in tying.
No experience with the griffin. Played with the danvise once and it felt cheap in my hands. I am a little rough with things and saw myself trashing it in short order. Lots of great tyers swear by them. See Al and Gretchen Beattys website fore more info.
Best of luck.
Just got a Griffin and really like it but in all honesty,,,at $84/shipping included,,,it's the most expensive vise I've owned.
My experience is limited to the Danvice. I haven't tied either of the others.
Honestly, I'd rather tie "in hand" than use a Danvice. There is a simple equation, Function + Quality = Price. The Danvice tries to do a lot at a very low price. If the price is held low, and the function increases then quality must fall.
The other thing when I tied on it, was that access to the hook was awful (I've only used the standard jaws). To tie a tail on a small hook the vice forced me to hold my left hand above the hook, right in the way of where my right hand with the bobbin needed to swing through. It was a struggle. If you look at most vices either the hook is the highest point, or there is space between the hook and the head of the vice. This is for your hand to fit into. Hold something horizontal in finger and thumb and look where your hand is. Now with the head of the Danvice so close to the hook where do you put the vertical part of your hand?
Do you really need all the function of a Danvice? If not you'll get a much better vice for your money if you choose something simpler and of higher quality.
Cheers,
A.
I use the Griffin for tying smaller flies, and a Regal for the saltwater flies. Really like the Griffin !
This is a good review of two of your candidates: http://www.flyfishohio.com/Vise%20Re..._Shoot-Out.htm
Have played with all three, and I'd go for the Griffin. For the money, however, I'd probably just get a 2A and leave it at that. Next price level is the $150-200 range, and there are some much better vises in that range.
I would go wit the Danvise, it is the only fly tying vise that can be set-up for a right-handed tyer, or a left-handed fly tyer. The Danvise has just about everything a beginner or intermediate fly tyer would ever need for dressing fly patterns. It is one of the best "Bangs For the Bucks" in fly tying vises!
Steven H. McGarthwaite (aka: Parnelli)
I have had a Danvice for at least 10 years, maybe longer now (Gary LaFontaine wasn't sick yet, how long a go was that? I got it through his mailer).
I don't know what being rough on a vice means, but I only tie about a hundred or so flies a year - nothing professionally or semi-professionally like some of these guys. It's held up well.
The upside is that it's cheap, it's true rotary, and holds hooks between 2/0 (maybe even bigger) and size 20 very well.
(FWIW, I have not had problems with space to tie down to size 24, but there are other issues - see below)
There are two downsides that I can think of off the top of my head.:
1) Size 22 or smaller, you have to be careful (very careful) with hook placement. Hooks have gone flying (I suggest wearing glasses). I've tied to size 24 being very careful.
2) The stem is 10mm, not the standard 3/8". There's barely any difference but enough so that a number of typical accessories that go around the stem don't fit.
The Griffin and by a considerable margin. We had a number of Danvice models with issues like poorly formed jaws, chipped jaws, jaws rough enough that sometimes new tyers would drag their thread along the jaws and it would get caught and break, and screw thread quality issues. They were difficult to deal with and were abandoned.
Did not realize the pricing on the Griffin has changed so much... I use a 3ARP in my travel kit and it is enough for the purpose. It has been used for a lot of very large saltwater flies beyond the listed range and has been just fine.
I use the Griffin Oddesey. Most of my stuff is done on #10 through 2's. Works well. I have tied thousands of flies and crappie jigs on it. My son uses it to tie on sizes into the 20's with no problem. I've even used it to tie bass jigs on 4/0 and 5/0. Good vise, decent price.
I'm starting to like the Griffin. The only thing I wish it had was a cam lock and not the tightening knob. I've used cam lock vises - really cheap ones - before and I liked them. I don't know that I would like the knob to tighten the jaws. Does that work good? Can you get it tight enough?
I will be tying mostly stuff around size 8-14 - mostly warm water stuff. I get to trout fish so little that its easier to just buy my flies based on the current hatch pattern where I get to go - mostly to the smokies.
Thanks to everyone for their opinions and thoughts.
Alan.
Ok Ok...So I'm looking around and reading reviews and have run across the Peak vices. Man, those things look great. Aircraft aluminum, stainless steel, brass, made in America. I'm liking it. Any opinions on either one...the rotary and non-rotary. I'm just not sure I need a rotary vice.
Thanks
Alan.
Good vises. The non-rotary are no thrills but hold a hook well. Easy to adjust, and the cam is definitely a improvement over the Griffin knob. The pedestals are a bit wobbly, but nothing a layer of cork or felt won't fix.
Personally, I cannot imagine tying without a rotary vise. I rarely tie "rotary fashion" but I rotate the vise all the time while tying. I do not even think about it until I start tying on a vise that cannot rotate, and then I immediately start missing the feature. You do however pay for feature. This is really a slipperly slope of course, because if you are considering a rotary Peak, then the Renzetti Traveler is in the same price range.
Good luck.
Over on the UK fly Dressing site there is a similar debate. I posted the following which I think applies here. It doesn't deal with specific models but more how they work.
Access to the hook is king. Can you get your hands all round the hook without having to move it in the vice? The vice should fit around you rather than you work around the vice.
Then there is the way that a vice holds the hook. There are five ways that they work. These are-
1, Jaws pulled into a Collette. Most cheap vices, HMH, and the Thompson vices.
2, Jaws pushed into a Collette. Dynaking.
3, Spring jaws, that are normally closed and you open them to place the hook. Regent type vices
4, Two plates, one fixed the other movable forming a lever and pivot. Rensetti, MP, Law
5, Loop and grove. Vossler made one and I have seen another, but don't recall the make.
I've owned vices of types 1 through 4 on that list and used 5 on one occasion.
Push into Collette type has advantages over pull into Collette. Metal is stronger in compression than tension. That said the likes of the original Thompson and the HMH vices are of high enough build quality to overcome these. And the forces involved are not that great.
Spring jaws are the best budget option. There is no adjustment to make, just squeeze place and release, then away you go. Very simple and fast, but if you place small hooks on the edge of the jaws they can spit them out, This can chip the jaws.
No. 4 is my preference in a quality vice. The mechanical advantage that these jaws have on the hook is huge. To give you an idea, it is the same clamping technique that is used to hold a workpiece on a milling machine. There enormous forces are used, far more than you will ever get in fly tying. Gives a very good hook hold.
The loop and grove works by placing the bend of the hook into the loop then tightening so that the loop pulls the hook into a grove. A novel method that has the smallest contact area between vice and hook. The loop is under tension so there are mechanical doubts, I don't know how well they last. They do not resist side to side pressure well, that is an unusual force to place on a hook while tying though.
If you are looking for a budget option then the Regent type spring jaws are the most solid and reliable at that end of the market. If you want to spend more then you have to make a lot of decisions about what you want from your vice. None will give you everything, even though some may claim to.
Cheers,
C.
Read more: http://ukflydressing.proboards.com/i...#ixzz2JLrBi31d
Hope that sheds a little light on your dilemma
Cheers,
A.
Alan,
I have some doubt on that last sentence. I would suggest each under-tension thread wrap introduces side to side pressure - perhaps not a lot per wrap, but in my experience the repetitive back and forth stresses the hold on these design vises.
Your thoughts?
Hans W
You are right Hans, What I mean is that it is very unusual to put much sideways pressure on while tying. I think we could agree that a thread wrap is light pressure, and spinning deer hair much greater. It is usuaual to pull to spin hair either towards or away from yourself. I cartainly don't think they could stand that kind of pressure.
Yes repetitive wraps can work these loose, especially at the speed you and I can run down a hook shank. They are a novel idea but I have my doubts about them. I've only tied one fly on one, it wasn't a bad experience but I would say I don't get on with them. You have just reinforced my doubts.
Cheers,
A.
Even for a hack tyer such as myself, a rotary feature is a good thing to have. You will get to where you use it more than you ever thought and it is very good to check the different angle views of the fly. I find I tye a good bit with the hook at a 15 - 30 deg. angle so I can see the top of the fly while tying.
Alan,
I do 'use' the rotary feature on my vise.
Once you take the time to learn how to do this, and it is not complicated or difficult, you will build better flies faster. It makes fly tying easier, especially if the quality of the finished product is important to you.
However, if you don't have the rotary feature, you can't ever use it.
If you have the rotary feature and decide you don't want to use it, you can still use the vise and not rotate it.
Put another way: there are things that you can do with a rotary vise that you can't ever achieve with a non rotary vise. There is nothing you can do on a non rotary vise that you can't do on a rotary vise.
Up to you. I doubt I'd ever want to tie on a non rotary vise again.
Buddy
Buddy I totally agree. I also use the rotary feature on my vice, having the tension set so I can move the vice head into the position I want it and it will just hold.
My point is that, to coin an old English saying, "You can't have your cake, and your ha'penny." It is more expensive to incorporate more features into a vice. Look at the quality vices that are non rotary, the Dynaking Kingfisher or the HMH vices. I'm sure you will agree that these are quality vices. As such the price reflects this. Unless you are a truly excellent engineer and have access to a top quality machine shop, you will have to go to such a maker if you want quality.
The quality of, for example, Dynaking vices is constant across the range. As a result the price increases as the features increase. Now if you have the features, and the price is low what must give way to permit this? There is only one other factor to consider.
Cheers,
A.
Buddy,
While agree in essence with your statement there is another aspect which also comes into it and that is access to the hook, specifically access to the rear portion of the hook. This is specifically the case when mostly smaller hooks are tied on.
A number of the in-line rotary designs on the market restrict access, or "encourage" the tier to adopt a modified wrist angle. This may or may not be an issue - as with all things vices, eh vises, this is a personal weighing of features vs requirements/preferences.
Cheers,
Hans W
Alan,
There are two flavors in the design. Both share the same IMNSHO flaw with regards to side pressure.
Vossler: A hole to poke the hook through and then retract the metal strip into the barrel to tighten onto the hook:
http://www.vosselerflyreels.com/tyin...e30efa52f1.jpg
(the left of the two shown)
JR Rotary Vise Harmonic: Also a hole to poke hook through, but now a steel pin is made to push against the back of the hook bend to tighten:
http://shop.siman.cz/detail/jt_vice_harmonic_head2.jpg
Both are flawed solutions looking for a problem long solved.
Cheers,
Hans W
Guys...ya'll have really lost me. I'm sure this is all fantastic educational info for the fly tying experts, but I havn't a clue what you are talking about. At this point, I'm pretty sure I'm going with a rotary vise but now have to decide if I want the Peak or the Renzetti Apprentice. Leaning towards the Apprentice. Seems more people out there are tying on it and have been for long periods of time with very little complaints.
By all means, though, don't stop your conversations about whatever it is your conversing about. I'm sure many are finding it informative! :)
If I am not mistaken, the Renzetti Apprentice is not a rotary vice...at least a true rotary. I have tied on a Peak and really liked it. I will be the next vice I purchase. I currently tie on a Renzetti Traveler. Wile I like the Traveler, the base is not heavy enough for my heavy-handed style of tying. If you want my opnion, I would go with the Peak.
Of course, YMMV
Brad
which motor oil is better? Quaker State, Pennzoil, or Castrol?
which one is better- a brunette, a blonde, or a redhead?
what's the best- Coke, Pepsi, or RC?
THERE IS NO CORRECT ANSWER. You simply must make up your own mind, and over time, your preferences most likely will change. With every vise and every vise type, there are things you will like, and things you will not like. Certain styles will have good features which far outweigh "bad" features.
I really dislike Regal vises, and I dislike "knob" tightened vises. They just do not suit my preferences- some I can articulate and some I would have trouble explaining--- Like artwork, some I like and some is IMO just complete garbage which has been vomited on. Other people have opposite views.
I like cam-operation and rotary features, and I like utility and value compared to glitz and gimmickry. I've tied on all manner of vises over 30+ years, and I am close-to-perfectly satisfied with my Peak vise.
One thing I believe Alan needs to know here.
ALL the vises that have been discussed are perfectly effective fly tying tools.
There are thousands of fly tyers tying excellent flies on every one of them.
The bottom line is after you buy one, you'll adapt to the vise. Just like folks do with their rods, reels, lines, and every other tool we use.
After some use, more experience, and conversations with others, you might decide to try a vise with different features and configuration based on your preferences, but maybe not.
Buddy
Hans,
As far as access to the back of the hook on smaller flies, that really depends on the vise and how the particular tyer approaches that issue. I seldom tie smaller than a 20, and have no problems with that size on my vise.
A friend has a DanVise. He's into real small stuff, tying down to 32s. He tells me he couldn't do that as well without his DanVise. I've not watched him tie, but obviously getting to the back of the hook isn't an issue for him. His flies look fine. He replaced his Renzetti Presentation with that DanVise, so obviously it wasn't an issue of cost.
I'm not up on digital mechanics and joint angles, etc., but I think there are different approaches to any given operation on fly. Finger length, dexterity, sensitivity, flexibility, all will effect how you do a particular thing on a fly.
Not every one of us ties the same flies the same way?
Buddy
I put Quaker State in my car. I married a Redhead. I prefer Coke. There, that's settled.
As for vises, I meant to say the Renzetti Traveler.
Thanks to everyone for their input. I just like to know what others are using and theirs likes and dislikes of the equipment they use. I know I will in the end decide what's best for me, and I may make a mistake, and I may adapt to whatever I decide on. Its an opinion thread...and everyone has one and is entitled to their opinion...even about art. Lord knows before I decided to get back into fly tying I tied many files on a cheap steel fixed position beginner vice. And I may in the end decide to just get another one of those. Just want to explore some better vises as options.
Thanks again...
I've been using a Griffon Odyssey for quite some time now. Nothing but good things to say about it.
I actually went to Bass Pro here locally last night and they had a Peak rotary. I was kinda shocked they had it in the store. But anyway, its was a SOLID vise. I may just have to go back and get it. Very nice looking and like I said, solid and seemed well made.
I just picked up a Danvise and have to say, it has quite a few adjustments, is light weight(some ABS parts) but has true rotary and the price is right. It also comes with the bobbin holder which is an extra cost on most vises. It also comes with a training DVD so you will be familiar with the vise before using it. I really like it. Is it in the same class as regal or peak no but it does everything they can do and more and cost less than half the price of other true rotary vises.
I don't really have an opinion on vices, but my biggest vice when tying flies, is my glass of scotch whisky.
Bob W :D
Bob what is your opinion on vises...oh sorry we covered that:D
BTW along the spelling line...I don't know if I mentioned this but I was trying to communicate with Jay of Jvice and my email would throw his responses into spam because of the spelling:(
Scott , don't know if you care but the Danvise can be modified ....one way is this...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1.../Tyersside.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ayfromtyer.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...rilledhole.jpg
Well, due to funds, or lack there of, I am going with the Griffin Odyssey Spider. I really want the Peak, but I've asked myself over and over, "do I really need a vise like that for what I will be tying"? Its a very subjective question I know, and only I can answer it. I've looked around and read alot of reviews and the Griffin seems to be a great vise and alot of people are very happy with it.
Thanks to everyone on their opinions and input. Now, what "Vice" to you recommend? HA...just kidding!
Thanks again...
I had to ask myself if I needed the Griffin,,,but only once or twice.
Hope you like it as much as I do.
Thanks again to everyone for their input. I received my new Griffin Odyssey Spider Cam Vise today and LOVE it. The true rotary is already coming in handy.