In Search Of Perfect Cork

This article is not for the people who build one rod and purchase a $40. super grade pre made grip , such as those offerd by Strubel, Rec or maybe Sage. Instead this is intended for those who build many rods and are constantly challanged to find a superior grade of cork to make their grips.

For years now the grading of cork has been inconsitant, advertised incorrectly , and sold at prices that are becoming outragous. With no offical grading system, sellers of cork rings place their own self interpeted grades on rings and the rodbuilder is at their mercy. Grades such as Flor, Extra select, Grade A, are all bogus terms, which leaves the rodbuilder with receiving inferior grade cork to work with. Paying $3- $4.00 per ring is no insurance that you'll receive top grade cork if you cant handle and inspect it before buying.

As most know wine stoppers, are the biggest demand for cork, as is a few rod companies with massive orders stipulating the best grade of cork. The rodbuilder is left with basically the left overs. This coupled with no offical garding system has allowed companies selling cork rings to sell inferior cork with no policing.

With all that being said , I personally am tired of being ripped off. I like many builders have resorted to using a lot of burl cork rings in stead of using the low gades of natural cork forced upon us. ........Using burl cork can be nice as accents and an occassional full grip,
but making a super grade natural grip is all but impossible.............This has lead me to search for other alternatives.

Now, one can argue that flaws in cork give it character. On the other hand there is little alternative for those that want a perfect cork grip short of spending mucho bucks or buying a pre-made from the above companies , which leaves the creativity completely out in making you own grips. So, what I'm presenting here is what I consider my alternative to making the "perfect" no flaws natural colored cork grip. Pictured below is a pre-shaped cylinder ready to be shaped into what ever style you want grip. This is pictured next to natural cork rings for what one seller advertised as "extra select".

Notice the massive amount of holes in those rings, which when sanded one can nerver remove without using filler. Filler is just what it is....."Filler". Using cork dust and glue is another method of "hiding flaws", either method for the most part is not permanent and over time reverts back to a lousy grip.

The cylinder you see below was made from 1/4" cork flooring underlay. This is a composite cork! it comes in varied thickness (in this case I used 1/4") each piece has to be glued individualy and then dried. Once sanded (as you can see) , it produces a "totally flawless" grip, whos consitancy and color is almost the same as natural cork. The same things can be acheived , such as adding color burl or craft foam trim rings if so desired and it sands or turns the same.

Weight is all but negligent compared to that of natural cork. And with that in mind that weight is of no real concern placed at the rear of the rod. So what I'm looking for here is opinions. What do you think? Like / Dislike........Have I gone to far in search of?
Lay it on me............Ed ..... Ps ..I will post the grip finished to shape at a later date.

http://i321.photobucket.com/albums/n...erfectcork.jpg

You know I'll be checking out the cork flooring underlay now !
Great idea and one fine handle that will make. I'm tired of AAA,
Flor Grade, Extra Select that is now junk compared to the cork
of yesteryear. My last 100 rings I bought, and it's been 15 or
so years ago, were what I'd call spalted. There were even cork
crystals or whatever they're called plus larger cavities than I
would have expected to find in so called 'Flor' cork. Thanks
again for the 'flooring grade' post !

Cheers,

MontanaMoose

Thanks for your input MM...........Here is a picture of the finished product, compared to another natural grip that I dont consider a bad grip, (the natural cork grip is a tad used ) but you can see the differences in the grain and the lack of flaws. The composite will darken in time just as the natural has done.........Ed

http://i321.photobucket.com/albums/n...ds/compare.jpg

Another Angle of the same grips
http://i321.photobucket.com/albums/n...otherAngle.jpg

There are dealers out there that do sell AAA or Fleur (sp?) grade. Top of the line cork. You deal with a reputable dealer and you get good stuff. Golden Witch, C&D Trading etc. You might have to wait because a lot of the times the good stuff is on back order.
Personally I'm not a big fan of burnt, burled, bamboo, compressed, composite and all the other "new style" cork. That's one reason I buy the cheapest cork and wrap it in rattan. I like the old style look of rattan and it is a comfortable grip.
Sometimes it takes a little bit of luck to get some top grade cork if you want to do just a Portuguese cork grip. Ski, I feel your pain.

Always welcome Smernsky...ok, couple
questions....is the compos cork grip in the
pic the final or will it smooth more with adtl.
and finer grades of paper. I took my latest one
down with 600 grit autobody (dry) and i have to
say, spalted or not, it looks good and is dang near as smooth as glass. Maybe too smooth.

Second question, what is that cool looking item
hangin' out the back of the reg. cork grip, some kind of rubber baby buggy bumper/rod but protector? Not seen one of those ever that I can remember...usually they're flat.

Cheers,

MontanaMoose

purty darned cool and great thinking outside the box.
that said I prefer the "regular" looking grip.

and yes good cork rings are out there, you've just gotta scramble around a bit to find them. my last couple batches of 1/4"' rings have been superb.

a couple of recently turned grips...
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_KSJjfQmoYx...0/P4220005.JPG

MM.........the composite grip with final shaping was only taken down with 200 grit. It is pretty darn smooth, but the "final final" could be taken down even more with a finer grit such as 600 and it would be like glass. I dont like slippery grips an is why I never use a wood grip.
The "rubber baby buggy bumper" is actually a little leg off an old piece of electronic gear. You know the kind that has 4 little rubber bumpers on the bottom?.........I drilled the end cap on the real seat and inserted it. It serves well in keeping the butt from getting all boggered up from guys like me who sit the butt of the rod on the ground to thread the rod or sometimes submerge it in a creek with a rock bottom...........just another piece of my "imaginering"........LOL.........Ed

There IS a cork grading system available, the vendors choose not to use it. The reason is exactly as you pointed out ... zero accountability, beyond their own "marketing terms".

I currently pay around $2.00-$2.25 per ring (1.25" OD x 0.5" W) for really good cork - CG1+. However, I buy it in 500 piece lots. The trick is making a large purchase AND waiting in line with cash in hand.

You can find some pretty nice composites on the market ... just look around. Everything from faux natural cork to solid burnt cork.

BTW, the new cork flooring squares (surface material) make a pretty sporty looking grip. They are available in a whole slew of tones and patterns. They are incredibly consistent with yet a very natural look.

Yet another recent twist are the carbon fiber grips. Much lighter than cork, no limits to shaping AND less expensive than almost any grade of cork.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d3...ble/carbon.jpg

To me it looks like press board, but then again if we all had the same taste in rods or other things life would be very boring.

Eric

Smern, my recent grip that I took down to
600 is a little slick, but then I don't put sealer
on my grips. If it's too slick I'll just go back over
it with 400 or 320 if need be but it feels nice
and 'grippy'.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Smernsky

MM.........the composite grip with final shaping was only taken down with 200 grit. It is pretty darn smooth, but the "final final" could be taken down even more with a finer grit such as 600 and it would be like glass. I dont like slippery grips an is why I never use a wood grip.
The "rubber baby buggy bumper" is actually a little leg off an old piece of electronic gear. You know the kind that has 4 little rubber bumpers on the bottom?.........I drilled the end cap on the real seat and inserted it. It serves well in keeping the butt from getting all boggered up from guys like me who sit the butt of the rod on the ground to thread the rod or sometimes submerge it in a creek with a rock bottom...........just another piece of my "imaginering"........LOL.........Ed

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Oh, neat idea with the 'electronic' feet and the drilling of the plug. Gives a very clean and pro
sorta look. I like it ! Thanks for the comeback
Smernsky.

Cheers,

MontanaMoose

I must agree with you totally about the quality measurements of cork grades being fictional. I would also agree if a group of us get together and purchase a large quantity direct so as to get the quality we desire. I have admired your ability to make grips and have looked at the pictures you submit. However I like the more traditional look of cork over your present creation. Great idea

Smernsky; I admire your efforts and willingness to look at all alternatives but I have to agree with Eric. It looks kinda like press board. Just too darn uniform. I might try it with some burl mixed in on a plastic rod but to me bamboo just cry's out for traditional cork or maybe rattan.

It seems that to get top quality cork, one is going to have to pay premium prices and maybe buy large quantities. I for one would be interested in a group buy if anyone finds a reliable source.

what about burled cork??

http://www.mudhole.com/New-Products/...rl-Cork-Blocks

I have to agree with some of the others. It's just to clean and looks processed. Just My opinion. Since I do a ton of bamboo restoration work I actually need some of the lower grades cork.
Look at most older rods and you will not see smooth, void free, leached cork. What you will see is a grip that gains character over the years.

That all carbon fiber grip look like it belongs to Darth Vader.
Again my 2 cents.

Remember this was an opinion poll if you will, and so far it seems the majority of folks lean toward the traditional cork with it's inherent flaws. I wont comment either way although I found out that many people who say they want the perfect cork, after seeing it lean the other way.

Also I would be in favor of a group cork buy if any of you folks who say they are using great cork could line one up..................

Keep the comments coming ! It is very interesting what is available out there. I myself had never seen a graphite grip........so this is also a learning process for us from other imagineering experts...............Thanks to all who have resonded and those that still wish to do so..........Ed

Ed -

I certainly admire your innovation and craftsmanship offering an alternative to those who aren't fully satisfied with the cork available these days.

But I also prefer real cork, probably because of its flaws, not despite them. And it occurs to me that there is some simplicity to them, and I don't get that sense from a manufactured product.

John

Words of caution: Be careful on group cork buys. It's easy to get burned. Been there and done that.

I enjoy custom grips. I believe it is the only way to get a grip that fits my hands. Who has the "universal standard size" hand any way?
For years I have felt the grading system has been flexable by each merchant, ie, their "best" grade is the best of the current shipment, not the same standard year to year.
I have used the exotic cork rings. It is heavier and denser than real cork, but looks nice. Being much harder to shape than cork, I would not use a block. I turn on the blank and tapering the block's hole seems like it would be difficult.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by No-tye-much

I have used the exotic cork rings. It is heavier and denser than real cork, but looks nice. Being much harder to shape than cork, I would not use a block. I turn on the blank and tapering the block's hole seems like it would be difficult.

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There is a way around BOTH the weight and tapering of the ID of a composite grip. Before you do anything, drill the block to accept a FlexCoat polyurethane arbor. Glue the arbor into the interior and allow to fully cure.

Now you have a block that is lighter, due to the poly core AND much easier to ream. Best of all, it is still very strong.

This same course of action can be applied to other types of grip components to reduce weight (wood, fossil ivory, bone, acrylics, etc.).

Jim, I'm presuming that is what you did on that woven graphite grip. I can see the core/arbor and what looks like cork over that then the graphite. Are these arbors something new or have I just not been looking in the right places?

That grip is a 100% foam core, not an arbor. The shaped grip was poured and turned on a lathe, just like cork. Then a carbon fiber "skin" was applied and finish coated with a special epoxy resin. The end result is a substantially lighter grip than cork, a less expensive grip than even cheap cork, a MUCH more durable grip than cork or composite cork AND it is a very modern looking grip.

Personally, I prefer most of my builds with traditional cork with inlays - composite cork, wood, bone, fossil ivory, acrylic, etc.

However, it is always nice to know what is out there. Everyone has different tastes AND different needs. For example, the carbon fiber grips are terrific for pack rods due to the light weight AND beefed-up durability.

TJ -

Here's cork from someone that knows what good cork is and what the bamboo builders are looking for:

cork

Here's a video on his sorting method:

video

Well..it looked good........but it's not available and the video didnt work? Not trying to be sarcastic, but it looks like most of the searches I've done for good cork........

it is available..you just have to email him....just can't order from the website at the moment....also the video works fine...

Yep, video works AND he is answering e-mails and phone calls. You CAN place an order, he just doesn't have a "shopping cart" system for automated internet purchases.

I purchased bamboo from Andy last year and all I can say is he went out of his way to make sure I got exactly what I wanted during a time when he was having problems getting enough cane to satisfy everyone. I talked with him several times and he always responded to e-mails.

If he is now selling cork, I will have to give him a try. I bet you get just what he promises.

I can't remember his name and it's driving me nuts. Out east, maybe Streeter? I just called Ron Kusse but got the machine, I know he has bought cork from this guy. But it was/is expensive - but then I didn't see a price on the Picky Bastard.

picky bastard premium rings are pretty pricey @ $2.65 a ring. which ends up running $34.45 for a 6 1/2" grip. I'll pass.

Ladyfisher; The picky bastard is almost your neighbor. Andy Royer, otherwise known as the Bamboo Broker. Vashon, WA (206) 463-1273

Where can one get the graphite grip?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RS1

Where can one get the graphite grip?

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One makes them.

Well seems the majority go for traditional cork even barring all the descripencies of grading and for the most part what I consider poor qualities. Being that as it may, I have received sereral requests to make these "cork board" grips..So some body out there likes em!

One thing I love about rod building is how peoples taste varry. Good thing too, or we would all be fishing with purple rods........LOL.................Thanks for all the input and carry on..........Ed

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Smernsky

...we would all be fishing with purple rods...

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I THINK NOT !! Kelly green, maybe, but not PURPLE ??

Good evening Smernsky
Many thanks for sharing your concepts and ideas.

What did you glue the cork with, epoxy ?

Kind regards,
UB

Uncle Barry................ I always use gorrila glue to glue my cork rings with. Reason: I have never had seperation , and the stuff is impervious to water hot or otherwise, and it also expands filling any gaps. That is the only place I use the stuff.
Seats, actually gluing the grip on the blank, and other things , I rely on 2 ton devcon epoxy.....for reasons of removal if necessary.........Ed
PS. I read your 2 handed spey rod article. Havent tried anything like that yet , but it looks like fun.

You can make foam grips that are much lighter than cork. There were some out there for sale but Andy quit providing them to vendors. I think now none. So pour your own. Buy 6lb foam liquid material from Fiber Glast. Or some other composite vendor. Use a board and mount a piece of pvc pipe vertical on it. Actually cut out a hole for the pvc to plug into vertically. Now mount a rod the diameter of your choice in the center of the pvc from the board up out the top. Now pour your foam mixture in the pvc and let it dry. remove pvc and you have an 8-10-18" what ever round piece of foam you can turn on a lathe or sand by hand and create a foam grip. Then you either seal it, paint it, or buy heat shrink covers for it which are available. or buy the sleeves as you have seen in Tampa Jim post. You seal on the sleeves and you have a foam grip lighter than cork.

Just fyi

There IS a current source for poured foam cores. Mike Pedersen at Riley Rods offers them for sale (Google will locate). His cores are 5.5# and 1.5" x 12" and very inexpensive.

As far as sealing ONLY or painting and sealing ONLY ... it will ding and get messed up. You have to put a skin on it and finish with a resin to expect durability.

There are a variety of skin types available - glass, carbon, kevlar, etc. It isn't overly daunting to build skinned grips, it just takes a bit of time and some patience.

The lightest durable grips I have managed to build were flocked graphite arbors.

Pac Bay makes graphite foam arbors in a large OD and about 5.25" long. I glue two together end-to-end and turn them to shape. Once covered in flocking, they are extremely comfortable AND the graphite foam is VERY light. Flocking materials are available in a variety of colors, from neutral to wild and it is an easy process to master.

Tampa Jim,

Ton of good info in your post. Example which one was the lightest, where to get them, etc. Thanks loads. I haven't done one yet but read about them. I have two....gotta go measure...12-3/8" x 1.5". I actually think I have 3. I got a 4lb and a 6lb. The vendor told me he would have no more as his source dried up. Glad to hear can get them from Riley...which I didn't know either. 5.5# sounds perfect to me. I don't know how to sleeve them yet. I got a couple of the heatshrink covers....but not too thrilled about how they look. Of course...need to build one to find out. Don't know how to flock either. But....going to go try to find Riley's. Thanks for the fantastic info.

I throw out a little challenge.....no....that is Hijacking a thread. I will pose a question on a new thread.

Thanks again..

Seriously Sincerely

Tampa Jim,

Wow. Just looked at Riley Rods. Fantastic for those of us wanting to build foam grips. He has everyghing you need to pour your own, sleeves, and pre-formed for sale. Wonderful site for foam grip builders. Since he has them preformed I would just buy them. Thought I couldn't anymore and was going to HAVE to pour my own. Perfect site.


Many many thanks again for sharing. Helped me out tremendously.