Figure 8 Follow Through

So, I've always used a clinch or improved clinch know for tying flies to my tippet. After reading a few articles I've been thinking about knots that will hold with a loop on the fly for more natural action, especially on wet flies and streamers. I am an ice climber and started thinking of knots I use while climbing. I figured that if I trust my life to a knot, why not trust a fly or fish on the same knot. The knot used to tie yourself (via a harness) directly into the line is called a Figure 8 Follow-Thru.
To tie it simply tie a single figure-eight knot in your tippet by tying an overhand knot with one more loop around so it looks like an 8. Take the tag end through the eye of hook and then follow it back through itself in the knot. It may sound difficult, but is really one of the easiest knots in the world to tie and it WILL NOT COME UNDONE. Additionally, it is used in climbing because it is one of the strongest knots you can tie.
My catch rate on streamers and wets has doubled since using this knot, so I thought I'd share. Anyone else use it?

I am familiar with this knot under the name 'Orvis knot' I like to use it for small flies since it is very compact and has less bulk than an improved clinch knot.

Oops, thanks for the correction GnuBee. I learned something new today...

link to Orvis knot.

http://www.fishandfly.co.uk/knots/orvis/

The figure eight follow through knot

http://www.apocalypse.org/~antony/tutorial/fig8_1.htm

The Orvis Knot and the Fig. 8 Follow through are not the same Knot.

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Originally Posted by Mark k

The Orvis Knot and the Fig. 8 Follow through are not the same Knot.

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I use a figure 8 variation on my dry fly. Tag end through the eye, figure 8 the tag end and run the open loop over the top of the dry where it actually shanks over the hook eye. The advantage I've seen is that the fly will ride upright in the water on every cast. I've found with the clinch that often the dry lands hook sideout and often the fly is riding upsidedown in the water. My hook rate has improved with the figure 8. Disadvantage is that it takes longer to clip and clear the line from the hookeye with this method. That can really be a pain especially in cold weather with numb fingers.....

Fish-stick, I think I have seen your knot many years ago being used for dry flies. I asked the gent what it's name was and he said, "One that works" and it did! The Knot Wild One forms a non slip loop. The Fig. 8 family of Knots is normally used in moutain or ice climbing and in rope Rescue. Their are no telling how many knots out there that work for a given job, all we have to do is decide which ones we want to use for a given task

gnu bee and mark k have it right. Not the same as the Orvis not. Great link btw gnu bee. I guess we do stick to the knots we're familiar with and what we like to tie, but I LOVE the figure 8 follow through and strongly suggest learning it. 8)

All my knot skills came from the climbing end of things too, but I guess I never gave it much thought for fishing because I always tie a back up knot while climbing. Guess I'll have to give it a try!
-Erik

I would love to use any figure of eight knot since I believe they are some of the strongest...but for some reason when on the water my mind goes blank :oops:
And this follow through business...I can just see all the trouble a fine tippet through and over and under and more....especially in poor light or with cold fingers :shock:

After looking at the tutorial, couldn't the same thing be achieved by running the tippet through the eye, bring the tag end back up along side the tippet and then tying an overhand knot in the now doubled tippet by bringing the fly through the loop?
Joe

Joe, If you wanted a real big loop you could tye what is called a "figure 8 in a bight". Tying an overhand knot then bringing the fly through the loop you have a surgeons loop. The secret of the figure 8 knots to tye a loop is that both lines mirror each other all the way through. Is this helping or confusing more?

Mark k

Mark,
When I look at the picture of the finished knot and follow the two different strands closely, isn't it a surgeon's loop? Aren't you exactly following the tippet with the tag end after you run it through the eye of the fly, in essence just creating a "doubled" tippet with the fly at the end of it in the loop? In a surgeon's loop both lines will mirror each other because you are doubling the line. Isn't that what you're achieving here?
Joe

Joe, I think I might have confused you, Yes in a surgeons both lines mirror each other. In a Fif.8 they mirror each other also but you can see the #8 before you snug it down.
Mark

What would happen if, during the threading through the eye step, if you passed it through the eye twice before following back through the figure eight? Would this mess up the knot, or perhaps add more strength to where it fastens to the eye?

Lew, I don't think it would mess the knot up, but this knot forms a loop between the fly and the knot, a loose loop, I don't see any reason to go through the eye twice.

Mark

I was playing with knots last night and found this site. Pretty good knot and easy to tie once you do it a few times. Sounds close to what you guys are talking about.

http://www.midcurrent.com/articles/knot ... eauty.aspx

jeliask,
Well, I see the similarities in the figure 8 section, however, this knot is being used to connect leaders and tippets not tippet to fly. Plus it looks much more complicated than the figure 8 follow through.
Lew,
Just as Mark said, the whole idea behing using this knot is to create an open loop that the fly is on for more natural movement.
Ducksterman,
I will admit 6x or 7x is not easy in cold temps, or warm temps for that matter, as it can get difficult to see where to go next. And low light conditions or darkness=impossible to tie for me. ( I always have a head lamp with me though 8) ) But, for big streamers and wet flies or on faster water for dries it definately has my favor.

The figure 8 follow through, or figure 8 retraced, however you care to call it, is a great knot for a lot of places. But I make it a whole lot easier than tying a single and then keeping track of everything while I thread it and retrace it back through the original knot. Start by threading your line through the hook eye and doubling it back along the tippet. Now holding both lines as one, simply tie a single figure 8 as if your fly was the end of the line. The lines stay together thoughout the knot and it's a whole lot easier to keep track of.

Deeky,
You're a genius!! :D The only thing I could get my brain to think about for a figure 8 on a byte (the knot you described) was to tie it before I threaded the hook on. By threading the hook first, you create the exact same knot in half the time and it is easier to tie than the clinch, improved clinch or just about any other knot besides a basic over hand! This is a knot anyone could tie while blind folded with 7x tippet in 10 degree weather!! Everyone who reads this should know that Deeky is a genius!! :D

Is there a problem with size of loop...getting the fly through...using excessive tippet...etc.?

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Originally Posted by ducksterman

Is there a problem with size of loop...getting the fly through...using excessive tippet...etc.?

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I suppose there could be if you're using big flies, but you can adjust the loop with little coaxing after the knot is formed, but before cinching it down. In fact, if you're using a thicker tippet you may even be able to untie the knot to switch flies without snipping any off. This of course is dependent on the tippet condition at this point. If you've fought some big 'uns or had some snags, the loop may have been weakened.

*Disclaimer: I haven't yet used the figure 8 on a byte, so this might not work-but it looks good on paper. :?

ducksterman -

There is no problem getting fly through as you can make the loop as big as you want. The good thing here is that the loop you need to pass the fly through is closed by pulling on the leader end of the knot, so a lot of the slack goes there and not into the loop.

The knot can be slid around before you adjust it to change the size of your loop. It may use a little more tippet in the tag end that you trim, but for me it's really a non issue - my tippet is loop-connected to my furled leader, so it's easy and fast to change. The speed of tying the knot, for me, also outweighs the small extra amount of tippet. Oh yeah, and I'm kind of cheap, so I'm not using real expensive tippet either. :D

If you aren't wanting an open loop at the fly, I would also recomend a palomar knot. It has the same benefits of the figure eight in that I can tie it a whole lot faster than some of the other fly knots. And I've never had one slip on me, no matter how slick of material.

My recomendation for learning new knots is to get a shorter piece of 1/8" - 1/4" rope and tie a few with that. It's easy to see what the line is doing, keep things in order, and untie to redo. Practice adjusting the size of your loop a few times with the rope before you go to the tippet. It has made knots a lot easier for me in the past.

Deeky