If you think I'm right, tell me. If you think I'm wrong, tel

This isn't fishing related. It is, however, fisherman related. I need your help and advise. Please offer both at your pleasure and convenience. Thank you in advance, and please take no offense at my mission. These are things I'd like to do, but I'm having difficulty getting started. If you can tell me how, that would be great. Here we go.
Here is what I would like to do. I only want to do it if God approves.
1. I have a 10? X 12? canvas wall tent. It has octagon wooden poles for support and ridge poles.
2. I have an excellent outlet for cheap New Testament bibles.
3. I know how to build fly rods.
4. I love camping. Especially if it involves fishing.
5. I would like to stencil a large crucifix on the back of my tent.
6. I would like to stencil the Christian fish symbol on either side of the roof of my tent.
7. I would like to stencil Isaiah 40:31 on the closed left side front flap of my tent.
8. I would like to stencil Revelation 3:20 to the open right side flap of my tent.
9. I would like to fly a flag in front of the tent that has John 3:16 on it.
10. I would like to camp along rivers and streams, and around lakes.
11. I would like to offer a place where fishermen can sit around a campfire and talk about Jesus. Instead of getting sitting around a campfire getting drunk.
12. I would like to give away free New Testaments.
13. I would like to give away fishing rods to those without.
14. I would like to do all these things, only if God approves.
Obviously I can?t camp year round. So, I think 13 trips a year (3 months) is possible. Perhaps I can use 13 weeks (3 months) a year building fly rods. And, the other 26 weeks (6 months) raising funding. I pray this plan will work. God willing, it will.



[This message has been edited by Lotech (edited 05 January 2006).]

Terribly Politically INCORRECT!

I LOVE IT!!!!!! Go For IT!!!!!!!!


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Let No One Walk Alone
><))))'>------<'((((><
Bill

lotech

your post sounds like a good plan to me.

i read it twice to be sure and IMHO you are not trying to force anyone to join in or agree with your proposals. (witness the title of your post)

if people like some or all of your desires they can join in, and if they don't agree with you they can fish on by. their choice.

it sounds to me like something that would make you happy and do some good at the same time.

i would say start making plans to DO IT!!!

good luck

mike

Lotech,
The possibility of my fishing Washington is slight, but if I do and I find you by the river, you can expect to have me for company for at least a little while. What a grand idea for a ministry.

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Clint

I feel closer to HIM when I'm fishing.

Joe

It sounds like you have it all set up in your mind's eye and now you only need bring it into being in the physical universe!

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RRhyne56
[url=http://www.robinscustomleadersandflies.com:3b591]http://www.robinscustomleadersandflies.com[/url:3b591]
IM = robinrhyne@hotmail.com

joe,it sounds tome like you have two great
loves and a way to combine them go for it.

Your plan very clearly shows your love and devotion to Christ and your willingness to carry on His work. I think you should give this a try and follow your heart and what He tells you, I'm just not sure how many people you will find willing to take advantage of your offerings. I would think that most people that are willing to share the word with you will already have a New Testament, (at least at home). Just be prepared for a difficult journey. Many people feel that religion is a somewhat privite matter and will be reluctant to discuss thier beliefs with strangers for fear of someone trying to force their beliefs on to them. For several years before I retired, I belonged to a bible study at work that consisted of very close co-workers from different Christian religions; everything from staunch Southern Baptists to Roman Catholics. You would not believe the emotions that surfaced between friends. Some even stopped attending bible study because they did not want to hear views from other religions. All of these people are still remain close friends, but religion is personal and discussions can become emotional. I would be very careful about handing out rods to people who don't have one. I find that VERY few people go fishing without a fishing rod, unless of course they borrowed one for the trip. Unfortunatly, there are people that would gladly take advantage of your generosity by accepting as many rods as you would give them. All this being said, I think what you're trying to do is admirable. Perhaps you could start small and just have some New Testaments, a welcoming smile and a large pot of coffee by your fire and take it from there. I do believe that you'll find people to share the Word, but the people you're looking to add to His flock may be afraid of sounding ignorant by their lack of bible knowledge, so just take it slow at first. I will pray that you are successful in your endeavor and please keep us posted on how it goes.


Take care and God Bless.

Jim Smith

Fantastic. Thanks and God bless you - Alec

I admire you spirit and willingness to serve. I think you might scare people off with too many symbols and scriptures. But that is their decision, not yours. You will find genuinely hungry and open people.

Don't forget the most important passage, John 21:3a:
Simon Peter said to them, "I am going fishing." They said to him, "We will also come with you."

You can count on me for a couple dozen flies a year for this.

Lux

Lotech,

Like Grumps, I read your post twice, and after thinking a bit I will share my thoughts.
As believers we have been given a mandate to become "fishers of men", however, we live in an era where many believers are nothing more than keepers of the aquarium. I applaud your vision to reach people where they are at.
I understand your desire to avoid offending people. I appreciate your forthrightness in the title of your post. Truth is, the cross is a stumbling block and an offense. It seems no matter how you present yourself and the message, you are always going to offend someone. I'm saying this to encourage you. Also, if this is an idea you had on your own the results won't be so great. But if there is a Divine initiative behind this mission your experience will be fruitful.
Just a thought ... if I were fishing on a small river and came upon your tent I would surely drop by. If your goal is to minister to people on the river, there might be less expensive ways than giving away fly rods. Don't get me wrong, if someone gave me a custom built fly rod in Jesus' name I would be extra thrilled. It might be easier on the pocketbook to provide bottled water and hamburgers. Just about everyone gets hungry when they are fishing. Many stores will donate freely to ministries. A step like this might enable you to stay creekside 6 months an only have to raise funds for 3 months.
One final thought .... from the verses of Scripture you mentioned your approach seems to be more evangelical in nature. I think that's great. We can share truth in a way that appeals or a way that repels.

About 13 years ago I used to fish on the Ohio River below a dam. From the parking area you had to walk over these big rocks --some as big as cars -- to get to the water. Early one morning I pulled up, only one truck in the parking lot. When I got to the rocks I noticed an older man, dirty, unkempt, writing on the rocks with colored chalk. He had a small boom box that was blasting out songs in Hebrew. He was drawing Biblical symbols on the rocks and he also had a scraggily goat tied to a rope fastened to his tailgate. I approached him and said hello and he just looked at me and walked away towards the woods with the goat in tow and a large knife in his hand. Extra weird. From glancing at what he had written on the rocks he embraced a belief system that included a little bit of everything. I wanted to tell him that the sacrificial system was part of an old covenant but he wouldn't even speak to me. It creeped me out so bad I got in my truck and left. I didn't want to be fishing with my back turned on a dude like that. Would you?
This has absolutely nothing to do with your post ... but we can share truth in a way that appeals or repels -- the whole vinegar/honey metaphor.
Good luck and God bless. Keep the fire burning.

Regards,
Greg Qualls



[This message has been edited by gqualls (edited 06 January 2006).]

I admire you for having this vision and I hope and pray that it will be His Will to go forth with this plan. Disregard any negative feedback you may receive on this and any changes to your plans that are offered because if this is His Will, it will all work out as planned. If I see you on any river I am fishing, I WILL stop and spend some time with you and Him. I think you will be surprised at how many visitors you will receive if this all goes as planned. I think you already know that this path will not be smooth and there will be some obstacles in the path, but, He had the same obstacles with His Son. Where Believers gather He will be there. May God be with you and guide you.

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Warren

OK, I'll be the monkey wrench in the works for you here. I'm not a Christian so I'll be a different voice. I think part of what you're trying to do is attract people who are not yet believers to come hear your spiritual leadings. Sounds like a cool plan. But I have to tell you that when I read your description of your tent I first thought that it was way over the top and I'd be repelled by what looked like (without meeting the person first) someone who would be at best heavy-handed and at worse, dangerous.

Here's my suggestion: Less is more. I think that if you painted the fish symbols on the tent and sat out front with a pot of coffee, a campfire, and a New Testament sitting out somewhere that people would be more likely to approach you. A friendly, "Good morning. Want some coffee? If you'd like to talk about fishing or Jesus, just let me know. Got any questions.. just let me know." You could have some tying equipment and give away flies that match the hatch instead of expensive rods. You could have some religious books and some fly fishing/ tying books sitting around. You could even have a second set of tying equipment and teach people how to tie flies while you talk with them. I don't know anything about evangelicalism so this might not work for you but as a nonbeliever, it would be a more attractive sight for me to come upon and I'd be MUCH more likely to approach you and stick around for a discussion.

I'll give you a personal story that can illustrate this method. I'm a hobby woodworker and when I wanted to learn how to turn bowls, I looked around to find a teacher. I found a guy who is a Mennonite and who gave day-long classes. I emailed him to ask if he could fit me in. He mentioned that he was a Mennonite and that the day would include some discussion of our faiths over lunch and that I was welcome to ask any questions. There would be no pressure. I was intrugued so I joined him for the day. He's the best bowl turner I've ever met, a wonderful teacher, and a deeply Christian man. I now know much more about his faith and have gained a new respect for Christianity. It's hard to beat that result and it was from a very lowkey approach.

Hope this helps.

Diane

Public Land?

Private property?

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"too much of anything is bad, but too much whisky is just enough"
Mark Twain

Lotech

We all have things in our hearts that we feel the need to do, and you are lucky to have aquired the wisdom to know what it is your heart is saying, and following it. If you are sincere, and I do not doubt that you are, I think you will find what your heart is looking for. I am sure there will be some that do not appreciate what you are doing, but the same can be said about politics, college football, and even fly fishing. It is our differences that brings us all together, and those differences that make this country great.

Just be sure to water proof the stitching you are planning on your tent! http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bb/smile.gif

Enjoy our time camping, Jeff

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Tis my time on the water, in the mountains, and in my driftboat where I can see things as they really are.

I like Diane's advice.
I would visit you. Every "preacher" needs a "heathen" to "work" on. I'll be the heathen. http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bb/smile.gif
Mom, used to tie us to the bed post by our ties on Sunday morning so's we could not get away before church. Since slipping the noose (hers), we prololy need a new noose (His).
..........lee s.

Hey Lotech,


Actually, you CAN tent camp year-round. I do it all the time here in Kansas where we get all sorts of weather, some of it quite nasty. I camp every month of the year, and have for almost 20 years.

If camping -- being outdoors in nature -- is something that really fires your rocket, then if you don't mind being given a bit of advice I recommend retiring that huge wall tent and switching to a good quality 2-person or 3-person nylon backpacking tent.

If you have a wife or girlfriend, or a best fishing buddy, someone who you like hanging out with outdoors, probably a 3-person tent is the way to go as it gives you plenty of space to sleep in plus there's ample room for your gear underneath the rain fly's vestibule and also inside the tent.

The space and weight savings you'll enjoy using a 3- or 4-season backpacking tent will let you gear up in other important areas (particularly warm clothing and wind & rain clothing) so that year-round camping becomes not merely do-able but extremely enjoyable.

A word about campfires: My canoe camping buddies and I, we rarely build a campfire anymore. Instead, we cook our meals on single-burner backpacking stoves. During meal preparation, eating and after cleanup we stay seated in lightweight folding camp chairs, sitting in a loose arrangement that lets us visit quitely while looking up into the stars and listening to the night's wildlife activity around us. That sort of relaxation and liberation isn't possible with a campfire for two reasons: you're a slave to the fire, constantly feeding wood into it; also, your night vision is greatly impaired by the firelight in front of you. (And don't even get me started on how the smoke chases me wherever I move to...)

One last thing: Why do you want to go camping, stencil biblical things on your tent, sit around outdoors talking with people about Jesus, etc. "only if God approves"? I don't understand. This is America, amigo, not the old Soviet Union. Whether you're Christian, Buddist, Athiest, Hindu, Muslim, Agnostic, Jewish, Pagan, whatever...in America you can go camping and do such legal and decent things anytime you want to.

If you ask me, I'd say the fact that you even want to do those things at all shows you got "pre-approved" a long time ago.


Joe

"Better small than not at all."

Joe

My first thought after reading your thread was to just let it go bye. But oh well.

First of all I can understand before you begin any ministry you would want to lay it before God. Not so much for approval, but to see if that is where you are being led.

I have to agree with Diane in that all of those symbols and such might lead non believers and some believers as well, to think you are off your nut. It's tough being in the world but not part of the world. But I think we need to be careful as to how the world sees us.

Case in point is Pat Robertson's recent pronouncement that the reason Prime Minister Sharon had a stroke is because of God's wrath. If he is not already off his nut, people will sure think he is. I do.

But anyway, good luck with your endeavor.

Very good idea. Wish we were not located on opposite ends of US. I would be honored to sit by your campfire. As some have mentioned you might want to be careful not to go overboard on size or number of symbols, might scare some off. If your plan comes to fruitation please either mention so on site or ship me an e-mail. I will try to provide a decent amount of flies for you to give out. Have a feeling my fishing friends will want to be involved also. Bruce

Lotech,

There is some wonderful advice on this post. I am very impressed with Diane's approach, particularly for a "non-Christian"! She is absolutely correct. Be inviting, not overpowering. Honestly, as a Christian, I would likely not approach a camp with such "in-your-face" advertising.

Nevertheless, a ICHTHMYS (SP?) symbol, a campfire and a cup of joe presentation would hook me in an instant!

Also, I think the idea of tying flies and teaching or simply joining others is a great way to visit, earn respect and open doors.

I have been a youth leader for many years (in the past) wich always involved camping trips. We would always draw a crowd during music and worship time and even had opportunities to share the Gospel. So I think that your mission is very sound and God can do a mighty work. I also agree with the post related to your will vs. God's. Be very perceptive here. Flood the idea with prayer and seek the advice of as many spiritually mature leaders that you can for prayer and affirmation.

Psalm 37:4 says, "Delight yourself in the Lord; and He will give you the desires of your heart." That doesn't mean that God will give you what you want if you are delighted in Him... It means that if you are delighted in Him, He will give you the desires to desire. All of which will bring honor and glory to Him.

I want to invite you to consider a "camping" trip to Alaska... this is a mecca of salmon fishers in June and July. I believe that you would find a great mission field (not too far from WA). If you get up this direction, let me know and I'll do what I can to support you.

I would also like to hear about your progress, either on this forum or by email...

Blessings,

Ed

At first sight it would put me off as just too much. To me it would seem like biblethumping. If I knew you personally I would tell you the same thing. What if a person was not interested in your religious intent, but really needed a rod?

I would avoid your camp but I avoid all camps I come across along the river. Mainly out of respect for those camping and the other reason would be prudence. I basically don't trust anyone anymore. Caution first. If you invited me over to your camp, I would politely decline your invitations.

My first reaction would be disappointment that someone would set up such a thing in my "church", and I would find another place to fish/worship without such a distraction.

Bill

Hi Lotech,

The idea you are presenting is a good one and is a great way to introduce people to the Lord. Like a couple of other replys that you have gotten here, I think you may be going way overboard with your advertisment. I think the Christian Fish symbol would be plenty and might even spark some interest from people who would normally not come near. As far as giving out fly rods to people, once the word got out that there was a guy at the river giving out free fly rods you would have a line up a mile long and not for the right reason. I think the idea of the fly tying at a table over a coffee would be of interest to alot of people.
I am a board member of a Christian Camp and I know we try to do exactly what you are trying to do. You are heading in the right direction. We will keep you in our prayers. [url=http://canoecovechristiancamp.org/index.shtml:3bbc2]http://canoecovechristiancamp.org/index.shtml[/url:3bbc2]

Thanks,
Alan (salmonguy)

That's worldly "flash and show", just as you are commanded to go into your closet and pray in private not in public as the heathens do, so should you live your life in such a manner that people you contact want to be around you and find out what you have that they're missing.

It's better to have substance.....than credentials.....

Respectfully, Jim

Lotech,

I beleive the best way to bring people to Christ is to live in such a way that people want to know what makes you so happy...what makes you such a kind, caring, and thoughtful person. I think that a more subtle approach (at least to the tent design) is best.

Instead of making your tent a "billboard for Christ" why not paint that Christian fish symbol (not too large) on the side of your tent where it can be seen by passers-by. Also, a sign that says "Angler's Welcome" might invite others in. This way, you've sent a clear message about your faith, but you've not whacked us over the head with it. You've also extended a kind invitation to those passing by.

I would not attempt to preach the gospel to your guests, simply show them Christian warmth and friendship. Be kind, and thoughtful, and offer your guests coffee, hot chocolate, a snack, a beer (I don't believe it's a sin to have a "drink"), or whatever. Talk about things other than Christ and faith(you are presenting a model of Christian life to your guest, not preaching to him/her). When your guest goes to leave, thank them for sitting with you and let them know you have a gift for them. Present them with a bible and wish them the best of luck with their fishing. If they take the Bible, great! If they don't, don't force the issue. People are called to Christ, and today might not be the day they hear that call...it may come days, weeks, or years later, but your actions will have been a part of that call to Christ.

I'm probably the type of person you'd like to have at your camp fire (I was raised in the church, but left it many years ago). If, as a passer-by, I saw the tent you described, I would immediately classify you as a religious nut, and pass by without stopping.

If your aim is to bring people to Christ, keep it simple (as Christ did).

I have tried three times to figure out how to respond nicely. Here is my best effort. Hope you are not offended.

I don't like people prosteletizing to me and find it offensive when they attempt to invade my space.

I don't like it when evangelists come to my door and don't take my simple no for an answer.

When I go to the water it is the closest thing I know to going to church or communing with that power I will refer to as god.

Your coming and invading (which is how your idea would feel to me) is like bringing your church into my church and making me deal with it. I have made a decision long ago about my relation to christianity and should I want to change that relationship I will go and do it. You need not come to me.

I hope that you find other ways to meet your need to reach out to others.

jed

I have been sitting back and thinking about how to respond to this as well. First off, I don't believe that Lotech ever said that he was going to approach anglers on the water and attempt to preach to them. He said that he wanted to provide a place to discuss God around the campfire. I do not see anything wrong with that.

As others have said, the tent is way over the top and would probably scare many people. A simple cross on the side of the tent would be sufficient. A small sign that said "Friends Welcome" or something like that would also be good. If you are set up in a campground you could meet many hikers, photographers and others that would be interested in talking with you.

The fly rod idea...I just do not like that at all. It seems as though you are trying to buy people for Jesus. Your intentions are good, but I just do not see how it will help the overall end of your plan. People who are seriously looking for spiritual help won't need a free fly rod and people who are looking for a free fly rod probably wont be seeking spirituality from you. If you really want to give something out, why not print up some stickers that your visitors could place on their cars or trucks.

Anyways, good luck with whatever you decide to do.

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-Kyle-

The reason some of us fish on Sundays is that we prefere the company of fish .... as aposed to church folks. But have fun with it if you do it. I'll pass.

Regards
Rich

Did Christ rely on big signs to attract attention? I don't think so.

What I'm suggesting is to use the "KISS" principle - Keep It Simple Stupid (please don't take that personally), but the phrase is applicable to the situation.

Actions speak louder than words - or tents with signs, crosses and biblical quotations. That would make me, as a christian, head in another direction.

Lotech,
You would be coming across way to heavy for me. When I'm fishing I'm not looking for a sermon or to be preached to and that is what your tent site would suggest to me.
A simple sign offering free coffee and fishing information would hook you many more subjects. In fishing for men as in fishing for fish you need to be much more subtle. Then, as they are drinking coffee and their curiosity is aroused you can broach you beliefs and see where the conversation takes you.

Lotech, I agree with Anglerdave.Lay this before the Lord and he will give you direction pertaining to it.Don't let any negative information turn you away.While Christ was on this earth doing miracles,loving and helping people they Crucified him anyway.That's just the way the world is.Show others love,respect and kindness in his name however you can.If you need an incouraging word at anytime feel free to email me.Oh,always remember that God is not interested in Religion,only in our relationship with him.Jesus is Lord!

To all: We think Joe has had opinions on both sides of his questions at this point,
and should have sufficient to ponder.

I am closing, and locking the thread. Thanks to all who responded.

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LadyFisher, Publisher of
FAOL