Little metal eye 4 line to leader

to Mr. Hatch and everybody,

In another thread you stated you found out the little metal eye shoved into the flyline was not the best thing to use. But you don't state why it is NOT the best. Why isn't it?

I have mentioned this little metal eye 2-3 times on here and no one has yet to provide the negatives of it.

I have had a pretty good break in fly fishing, like 47 yrs. But been back at it for couple of yrs now. I would like to know what the negatives are for using the metal eye. I have read a lot about the "best" knot for line to leader and intend to practice and try some of them. However, every time it is time to go fishing, off I go with my current set up. I still use the metal eye. I have never never ever tied a leader to a line. I have never ever had the end of the fly line to leader fail. I have never had any eye come our or break. EVER. It will float with your floating flyline, just like the fly does. If it is a sinking line....so what it it sinks? I sincerely am not being challenging. I guess I am showing my igorance. I do not understand why the metal eye is never used by "accomplished" fishermen. I only need to know one knot....the same knot I tie the fly on with, I tie the leader to the metal eye with. Sooooooo what's the big deal?

Gem
Hopefully others have this same curiosity. Otherwise I am going to get slammed.

My main objection to the little metal eyelet (and I've used many) is that they seem to provide just enough weight at the tip of the line to cause it to sink. I never had one fail, and I've caught some fairly heavy fish on them. I've come to depend on the whipped loop because it floats better.

Dear Jim,

Why is it bad?

Honestly, tradition.

Succumb to that little metal eye and the next thing you know you will be attaching your flies to your leader with snap swivels! ;-)

Regards,
Tim Murphy

They may also cause the line to hinge at the end of the insert.

I have no experience with these metal leader connectors, but I have seen them (on the shelf, never in use).

When I looked closely at those tiny barbs on those eyes, I doubted they would hold their position long enough to handle even average fish in reasonable currents. I think most flyfishers use either nail knots, needle-nail knots, or braided loops to attach their leader to the line. I believe all of these knots provide their strength by gripping around the end of the line; they do not rely upon a few small barbs that only make contact with the line's coating, the weakest part of the line.

Besides, fly fishing for many is a technical activity. Perhaps those metal eyes just make it seem too easy for most.

As I said, I have no personal experience with such connectors. But if they work for you, then that is what matters.

i have used one a long time ago-i know one thing some one said they wouldnt hold big fish the only way i ever found to get one out was too cut the line-they stay the line would break before they would??

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bob faorite past-times winter steelie fishing-fall bow-hunting-would write more but with my typing i would be here for wks.??

Here we go again. If Bugsy has never used one why is he replying at all?

Bugsy,
Those little barbs do the job. As I stated before....I have never ever had one fail. And when you treat your flyline with floatant they float....they don't sink as some have said. I am not campaigning for them. Just wanted to know what I don't understand. I buy tapered leaders and cut the loop off and just tie them into the eye. I was just looking to improve but didn't know why nobody liked or used them. And as Commanche said......they don't lose a fish. The only way you can get one back off the line is CUT it off. It WILL NOT come back out. Just FYI. I think there are several brands and I can look up my favorite iffen anyone cares. But I do not like the ones at Wal-Mart. I have never had to fuss with knots fishing. Every time I go fishing the eye is there. I don't need nail knots or any other kind of knot. Just tie on a new tapered leader, tie on a fly and go fish.

Sorry for length of msg.
Gem

Plain Old Jim

I have used them many years ago and, like you state, they work fine. I no longer use them because I found that they do cause the fly line coating to crack where the pointed end of the eyelet ends inside the fly line. They also make a 1/2" to 3/4", depending on the length of the eyelet, place in the fly line that will not "give" or be able to flex and this "flat" spot will hang up some times in the fly rod tip. Another thing I noticed was the barbs would eventually protrude through the coating of the fly line just enough to nick the eyelets and rod finish. They will also rust. They work just fine for what they were intended for and I guess if you are happy with them and are having no problems with them, you need to just continue using them. Life is too short to make changes just so you can be like all others.

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Warren

I just make my own connectors with a little bit of ice fishing line (black stuff), 8/0 thread and super glue.
Never really paid attention to how they float but they hold welll, never lost a fish yet.

later
Mike

Hey newfie

Do you have any more info on how you set up those iceline loops. That sounds like a good idea.

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Who has time for stress when there are fish to catch.
Nick

Used those little metal connectors for many years. For some unknown reason I have switched over to nail knots. Was very fortunate to connect with way over my share of really big fish with the metal connectors and only ever had one break. When looking closely at remaining portion it was plain some rust had set in. No ones fault but mine. I would have no problem going back to them.

Yes Sir, just take some ice fishing line and form a loop at the end of your fly line, I then begin to wrap both materials together with 8/0 uni thread. The reason I use 8/0 is because of its fine diameter, it tends to bite into the fly line for a better hold. Wrap it tightly but not enough to snap the thread this will give the bite. Just remember to wrap closest to your fingers at any one time this is the stiffest portion of the wrap, move fingers accordingly. Just keep wrapping until the 2 materials are secured then cut away the excess portion of the ice fishing line. Then continue to wrap materials until the fly line and ice fishing line is very well covered. Give it a couple of whip finishes, add the super glue, let dry.
Once the super glue is dry I give it a couple of thin coats of head cement for protection.
[url=http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c196/IslandBrookTrout/leaderloop5.jpg:bc8db]http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c196/IslandBrookTrout/leaderloop5.jpg[/url:bc8db]

later Mike

[This message has been edited by Newfoundlander (edited 14 December 2005).]

[This message has been edited by Newfoundlander (edited 14 December 2005).]

Thanks

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Who has time for stress when there are fish to catch.
Nick

Used the little metal "eyed lag screws" yrs ago.
Then went to nail knots.
Later progressed into epoxy splices.
Finally ,I discovered loop to loop connectors.
Best system I've found yet!
PS, Jim stop cutting off the loops and try this system. You said you dont like to tie knots ..with the loop to loop you wont have to. just attach a loop connector to your fly line and away ya go!

[This message has been edited by Smernsky (edited 14 December 2005).]

Hey Plain old Jim,

By the way, I'm just Jim too. My Dad
was Mr. Hatch.*G* Wow, I didn't know that
I had opened a can of worms. If the eyelets
work well for you, by all means, use them.

I used the metal eyelet inserts for
many years. Right up until I got my first
computer and learned the knots that were
considered appropriate. I switched to the
"nailess" knot and to me it was a big
improvement over the insert. I have not
even considered going back to the inserts.

The reasons for my changing were, first
the inserts were a real pain for me to
install on the flyline. I have memories of
needle nosed pliers, hot needles, and burned
and pinched fingers. Then the eyelets
seemed to cause my line tips to sink. I'm
not sure if it was from the added weight,
or if it was easier for the water to soak
into the line tip. I was forever cleaning
and adding floatant to my line tip. I also
would experience cracking and fraying of
the line around the insert. I owned one fly
rod, reel, and line at the time, and I also
fished it inshore in the salt water for
sea trout and redfish. The eyelets did not
like the salt.

The nailess knot takes me less than a
minute to apply leader to my line. No
pinched fingers. It floats all day long.*G*
I prefer it. I'm sorry if I came off heavy
handed against the inserts. Was not my
intent. I figured I was among the last to
learn what I considered a better method of
attaching leader to line. I stand
corrected sir. By all means use what you
are comfortable with. By the way, I did try
the Scientific Anglers L2L connectors when
they first came out. I personally found
them to be a big improvement over the metal
inserts. What I particularly liked about them was ease of installing and impervious to rust from salt water. But I still prefer the nailess knot as it's nearly invisible and goes through my guides easier. Warm regards, Jim

[This message has been edited by Jim Hatch (edited 14 December 2005).]

Plain Old Jim,
I am considering going back to the no not eyes myself. I have never seen one fail and landed some pretty big fish with them. You don't need to cut the loop off of your leaders when you use these. Just insert the little metal eye through the loop on the leader, slide the leader loop up the line a little to get it out of the way, bring the tippet end of the leader up throught the eye and pull the tippet end until the loop end locks into place with the eye. You now have a loop to loop connection. This works for furled leaders as well.
After reading the many and varied opinions on line to leader connections I have reached a conclusion of my own. There is no single method that is the perfect thing. Find out what works best for you and use it. Afterall, the most important thing is that you enjoy fly fishing and attempting to tie a frustrating knot can take the enjoyment out of our sport.
Enjoy and Merry Christmas!

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Eric "nighthawk"

American veteran and proud of it!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ray Knows-All

Here we go again. If Bugsy has never used one why is he replying at all?

---

Just to hear you whine, Ray! :lol:

Jim Hatch...you didn't come off as to hard on eyelets. I just was wondering what I was missing in the issue. I have seen the fraying at the needle end of the eylet, and the flat spot it creates in the line at that point. I hadn't thought about the water getting inside the line. It's sort of a toss up. You can put one of those eylets in and fish a couple of seasons without having to tie any other kind of knots. Or you can probably have a better set up and tie lots of knots.

Nice tip Nighthawk on the loop to loop connection. Thanks. And good last comment. When you are standing there frustated more and more with cold hands and freezing fingers trying to tie a knot......it does take a lot of fun out of it. The point is to enjoyh it huh?

I wasn't trying to convince anyone else to use them. Just wondered what was so bad about them. Now I have heard a lot a stuff. I am thinking about trying the various recommended knots now. Thanks to everybody. Seems like when I asked people in the local fly club I would just kinda get a blank stare. I don't think the guys knew why they didn't use them! So they were just speechless. For a lot of them I think it was just that.....tradition....I think Tim Murphy honestly nailed it....(pun intended). But I know a lot more now. Some guys like me you really gotta explain it for me to catch on. You gotta get a bigger bat to beat it into me.

By the way, I remember the eylets I didn't like and I think they are the Wal Mart.....South Bend?....whereas the true No-Knot brand is good.

Thanks again everybody. I appreciate the shared wisdom.

Gem



[This message has been edited by Plain Old Jim (edited 14 December 2005).]

Hey Gem,

I think it's safe to say that it's all
pretty much personal preference. If you ask
around, there is no one answer to what is
best. If you like the metal eyelet, by all
means use it. It sounds as if it has served
you well for a long time.

My personal favorite is the "nailess"
knot for attaching a leader to my line. I
do not like the loops on the end of my fly
line required for some of the other methods.
It's quick and easy, very strong, and does
not require a tool as does a standard nail
knot. A quick google search will provide a
number of patterns for it.

The Castwell knot appears to be about
as simple as they come and JC swears by it.
I'm sure he's right, but again, I don't like
a loop on the end of my flyline. You can
find the Castwell knot here: [url=http://www.flyanglersonline.com/begin/knots/index.html:cbfe3]http://www.flyanglersonline.com/begin/knots/index.html[/url:cbfe3]

I did try one of JC's recommended knots
today, the figure 8 knot. I had used it as
a stopper knot for many years for sailing
but never to join two lines together. I was
very favorably impressed with it and quickly
turned out several leaders to play with. So
you can teach an old dog new tricks.*G* I
learned one today. Use whatever method you
are comfortable with and while I'm at it,
have a very Merry Christmas. Warm regards,
Jim

In the infancy of my FF passion, I used the metal eyelets exclusively and I thought everyone else did too. The problems with them were the difficulty in pushing them into the flyline end, the fraying/hinging ( eventually) of the flyline at the needle point of the eyelet. There is NO way they would fail by pulling out. I don't recall having an added weight problem either.
At the time I considered them a convenient, neat way to attach line to leader. I still have a few varied sizes in my flybox "just in case".

Mark


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I'd rather be in Wyoming!

My first outfit came with a few of those metal eyes. I had a hell of a time getting the cursed little things into the end of the line without bending them or sticking myself. It's nail knots w/ a dab of pliobond for me....

Hey Marco, DT,

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one
that had problems putting the eyelets on the
end of a flyline. I probably bent/broke
more of the darned things over the years
than I was able to successfully install in
the line tips.*G* Warm regards, Jim

I used those darn things years ago too. I liked the way the line and leader came together without a big lump as is the case with loop to loop. I don't remember any problems with them other than those already expressed above.

My favorites now are a simple streamside tie or a nail knot. If I want to change leaders frequently, I believe that JC's Line to loop is the best I've seen.

The best Idea is to use what you're comfortable with but I'd avoid loop to loop on shallow runs under clear water conditions.

Ol' Bill

I got a bunch of them for about a buck. I stopped using them when loops came out on lines. I just keep adding tippet material for a while and then rebuild the leader I use off of that.

I still have some of the metal inserts someplace.

Rick

P.O.J.,

I don't know how many years ago it was that I used one of those little thingees, but I can tell you two things: 1)They don't come out unless you cut them off; and 2)You have to use a knot to attach the butt of any leader. That creates a bit of bulk that I didn't like.

If you do not find the knot for attaching the leader to the line bothersome, use one of those thingees. Personally, I prefer the Krazy Glue splice.

Allan

As many have stated I used them for a few years...The reason I switched to Nail knots is really very simple..when one had to be replaced on the water it was difficult..It did not happen often but after a while the line would break right behind it.
Hinging and such is the prob there,They can be a real bear to get into the end of a line.
And if your in the middle of a hatch at dusk,Digging to find your spare..if you have not lost the wee bugger...and sitting there in low light without the right tools it can get frustrateing...lol..and a nail knot is faster,Lighter and does not cause a hinge effect...NEVER Had one pull out of the line, Not once !

I have had those slip on braided loop things slip off the end of my line while fighting a smallish Smallie, Never did like the bulk of those things either.

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"I've often wondered why it is that so many anglers spend so much money on,and pay so much attention to.the details on the wrong end of the fly line.If they took as much care in selecting or tying their flies as they did in the selection of the reel and rod,They might be able to gain the real extra edge that makes it possible to fool a fish that has,in fact,seen it all before" A.K.Best

Everyone wants to excel in this sport but at the same time we let traditionalists place restrictions on our tactics, methods, and ideas. I always assumed that fly fishing was a sport that allowed imagination, creation, adaptation, investigation, dedication, education, revelation? : Fox Statler, On Spinners (Not the dainty Dry Fly kind) "Spinner'd Minner Fly"

"Wish ya great fishing"

Bill




[This message has been edited by billknepp (edited 16 December 2005).]

Back in 1960 when I started fly fishing those metal eyelets were the only way I knew to attach a leader other than tying a knot in the end of my flyline and tying the leader behind the knot. Iused level line and didn't hear of weight forward line and nail knots until 1998. The eyelets were a pain getting into the line but I knew of no other way. Now I whip a loop on the end of the line and use loop to loop.

Larry