Fishing to spawning fish

I'm sure it's been a topic on here before, but I'm curious what you all think about fishing to spawners. How much does it hurt the spawning fish, and ultimately the new generation? I would guess not that much, cuz if it did it would be unflinchingly thought of as completely unethical, and it's not. I ask because a couple of fishing buddies and myself happened upon some redds, with big spawning fish. we fished egg patterns and sj worms and had a hell of a day. we were careful to avoid stepping on the redds, etc., but we still sort of took advantage of their situation. So what would you all have done in that situation? Same as us? Gone home? Avoided the spawners by fishing the deeper holes only? Not fished egg patterns?

If you are fishing according to the laws set forth by the state you are fishing in, you are within your rights to fish during the spawn if that is permitted. Beyond that you get into the area of personal choice as to when you target certain species. There is recurring controversy in Ohio about this as pertains to the put-and-take steelhead fishery (we are a warm water fishery in our rivers so there is negligible natural reproduction from the hatchery fish infused into the system each year). Nobody wins this debate, and it continues ad nauseam. I no longer tell people what my opinion is, because there's always someone waiting to evangelize me to their opinion. Do what your own conscience tells you do, and stay within the laws.

Joe

I read an article, a number of years back, about this very topic. The author's view was, that it's ok to fish over spawning fish provided you didn't try to hook all the fish in the pod. He said if he came upon a pod of fish, he would try to get one or two to take and if they did, he moved to the next spot.
I do it similar to that. If I see a pair, on their redds, i'll leave them but if there's more than a few, i'll try for at least one and then move along.

Oh my! IMHO - let 'em be! The most vulerable time of their life? Isn't there plenty at other times?

What did I tell you...? LMAO

Why I'm stayin' out of it !

Sorta,

MontanaMoose

My thoughts are you must not wade through the riffles where redds are. Beyond that is arguable. My vote is to leave them alone completely.... and I focus on rainbows in the fall (and browns in the spring if the water is low enough).

By vulnerable, do you mean that by fishing to them it's potentially dangerous to the fish? I'll agree that it's not as sporting (because the fish are so eager and not as much effort or skill is required), but if it doesn't do any damage to the them or their spawn, what's the problem? if it does do damage, even potential damage, i understand. but if the fish are just more willing to strike your fly, i don't see the problem. by that theory, you shouldn't fish the mother's day caddis hatch because the fish are just too willing. i'm not trying to start a controversy, i'm just trying to fully understand. and if this gets too heated, by all means delete the thread.

Ok squatchHunter, I'll throw this in and mind you, I'm neither here nor there about fishing over the spawn, though I do leave certain fish alone during the spawn. I think what a lot of ppl's concern is that the trauma inflicted during the catching and releasing of a spawning fish doesn't further the 'nest protection' if you will, or perhaps even the actual spawning event.

Beyond that I don't really want to say how I feel about fishing over spawning fish of any kind because I've done it plenty, but there are some spawning fish I leave alone if I'm aware they're there where I'm fishing.

I don't think my ethic is askew nor do I think I'm hurting any species that I am willing to fish for while they're spawning but as mentioned by some (and I regard all opinions highly) it's not a good idea, but then again as in my case, I feel it 'depends'. This will open up more debate I'm sure but hey, what's a board without 'debate' or fishing in general for that matter ! Hope some of this makes sense.

Cheers,

MontanaMoose

I think Joe V had the right response... in that there are as many opinions as members. That being said, in Alaska, we are confronted with this very issue every year. While targeting one species, another may be in the spawn, thus leading to incidental catches. The data is clear that catch and release, even when done properly, results in a certain level of fish mortality (at least in Alaskan waters and presumedly others). Then you ad the fact that the spawning fish are already stressed and angry. Indeed this is so aparent in Alaska waters that it is against the law to remove some species from the water after an incidental catch.

Now that being said, some of the best trout fishing I have enjoyed (rainbows, steelhead and dolly varden) have been below the redds fishing beads (another contraversy) pegged above the hook. I have fished egg patterns but find more deep hooks than pegged beads, but that is another thread all together.

Ethically, I agree with previous posts to pay close attention to the regulations. Secondly, consider the effects of catching potentially spawning fish that would be propagating the species. Some streams/rivers, that is not an issue, while others, with a small return, a 7% mortality could greatly impact the future fish populations. Species are also important to consider. Rainbow trout and king salmon are particularly vulnerable to catch and release. Likewise, coho (silver) salmon are vulnerable the first day or so after entering fresh water.

My personal preference is to avoid spawning fish, however, it is very clear that incidental catches are going to occur. In those cases, try to land the fish quickly and gingerly/efficiently release/rescuitate the fish.

Good luck

It is illegal to disturb any spawning fish in freshwater in BC. This includes fishing for them. So for me the problem is moot.

The PM River in Michigan holds a huge population of naturally reproducing steelhead. It has been that way for a very long time. The upper tributaries are closed to fishing until the last Saturday in April and most of the normal steelhead spawning is done by then. The main branch through the better spawning area is no kill flies only holy water. It gets fished heavily during the spawn. Most anglers follow reasonable fishing practices. Below that it is a one fish limit and the spawning is not as concentrated.

When steelhead are on the redd, there is usually a female cleaning the stones and a number of males either beside or down below in the hole below the redd. Chuck and duck is extremely effective on these spawning fish. However, it is best to cast up and over the female so your fly is presented to the males down from the female. There is no gurantee the female won't grab it but if she does, fishing is over until you release her and she gets her breath (figure of speech) and comes back - hours not minutes. That is provided you didn't squeeze all her eggs out by poor handling. You can catch every male there if you are good, careful, and lucky - very lucky.

The Michigan DNR does an excellent job of maintaining a stable fishery by regulating where, when, and how you are allowed to fish. You can follow the rules and be fairly sure that you are not harming the fishery.

Another note, a sizable percentage of steelhead die as a result of the riggors of spawning. I don't have data but I suspect that cause of fatality is higher by a bunch than fish killed by anglers. And remember - these are not hatchery fish - so many babies survive.

As a final note - I don't kill fish, at least not intentionally. I wouldn't fish steelhead on the redd if I thought I was harming the fishery. Fishing them in the redd is not easy. Just because you can see them doesn't mean they will jump on your hook. Besides that, it is usually cold as the dickens. It is never for the weak of spirit. It takes commitment and technique. It is exciting kinda like spring turkey hunting. But if you did not fish the redd, you opportuntiy for catching fish goes way - way down.

Now there is always the PETA comic book "Your Daddy Kills Animals!" that wants everyone to stop. But that's another subject.

Godspeed,

Bob Bolton

While I have my opinions on the subject; I do trout fish all year long but usually leave spawners alone because similarly; I wouldn't want an overanxious motel clerk rousting me from a tryst if ya catch my drift...

...;)


I also have a concern shared by many of my bass fishing compatriots that when you catch a fish on the bed/redd; you create a situation where the eggs are unguarded and therefore available to be eaten by predators. How long momma is away from the kids can create a banquet for other critters. It is one of the reasons that plastic lizards are so popular with the post spawn BASS crowd; lizards are known "egg eaters".

What confuses me is; I know of one famous trout stream that has LOADS of signs put up by the local TU chapter telling fisherman to leave the spawning trout alone until April 1st but many of these same fishermen have no issues turning their "trout spawning season" attention to Steelhead.

Selective outrage or another example of trout being held to a higher level?

As for me I don't really care what anybody does as long as it's legal.

BTW I forgot to say - a steelhead in a stream is either spawning or thinking about it. Sometimes they follow the salmon up in the fall and winter over but they will spawn first chance they get. You can winter fish the deep holes and sometimes pick one up. But winter fishing is for the hearty and the young. I don't do it anymore. I'm too old and the hearth is warm. But steelhead do not normally reside in the stream. At least not where we are.

Usually they are out in the big water being wailed on by big boats dragging plugs for salmon, steelhead, and lakers. And they can take five fish a person.

Although, a few hearty souls are starting to surf cast like the striper people do. Anybody know anything about that? I would love to try.

Bob

When talking natural and native Steelhead the figures I have heard are 99% of males die and 90% of females die after the first spawn. The ones that live are the hearty fish that should be saved to help the population. In my opinion fishing to dropbacks is more of an issure than fishing to fish on redds.

Fishing is a bloodsport. C&R is great, but it is what it is. When fishing to spawning and dropback fish the mortality rate skyrockets. If fishing the spawn is legal, go ahead. If fishing to dropbacks is legal, go ahead.

I however would not fish the spawn in C&R only waters. This way if a fish does die after my catch I can keep it and do the fish justice with a good meal. If I am allowed only one fish, then my fishing is finished for the day. This is only my view and only pertains to natural reproducing stocks of fish or to waters where natural stocks are trying to be re-established.

In put and take fisheries fishing the spawn is a bit different, especially in waters where natural reproduction can result in very few returning fish. In these situations I fish for fun, but still do not release dieing fish, and always try and play fish I plan to release as quick as I can.

Where I fish for steelhead, just try to fish a redd or walk through it. You will not get a good reception. The fishermen that fish these waters are like the neighborhood watch. We as fishermen can justify fishing to spawning fish because the says we can, I won't. I do not prevent others from doing it or judge them for it. I just can not bring myself to fish to such vulnerable fish. The way I see it, if a steelhead has made it hundreds of miles to its spawning grounds, it deserves the right to pass its genetics to later generations. Just my opinion on the issue.