How much would be willing to pay for someone else's fly? Either for art or for use? Page 15 of this month's issue of Outdoor Life features a $300 Jock Scott tied with four or so types of rare bird feathers.:shock:
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How much would be willing to pay for someone else's fly? Either for art or for use? Page 15 of this month's issue of Outdoor Life features a $300 Jock Scott tied with four or so types of rare bird feathers.:shock:
I used to get $100 for a salmon fly tied w/ the real feathers,not substitutes. That was in 1981. I was 16 at the time.
depends on the who the tier is, if its a modern day tie or an antique, how well its tied, and if all the materials are genuine. one tied with genuine materials has: Indian Crow ($10 PER FEATHER), Toucan ($1000-2000 easily for a skin), Kori bustard (used to hit $800 PER FEATHER from wings or tails. though you could get a few dozen flies out of one feather), Jungle cock($100-200 for a good cape), chatterer ($5-10 per feather or $1000-3000 for a skin).
That answer youre question about the price?
I know where there will be a bunch of very good ones soon. Check our main page,,, in the middle. :)
You just have to love this concept...
Someone put together some pleasing colors of feathers and/or fur onto a hook many years ago, using what were then readily available materials.
Keep in mind that many of these so called 'patterns' were just these guys playing around with what they already had, and also remember that these flies looked nothing like anything that lives in or around the water.
And, they were mostly tied to catch fish that DON'T EAT....they were just supposed to maybe, once in a long while, cause a reaction strike from a dying fish that once it begins it's spawning run no longer feeds....so there was no need for the fly to look like anything...they just stuck colors together in inovative fashions....gawdy was okay...bright colors from odd birds that they otherwise had no use for were fine...the fun was in the tying...see how wild you can get it.
None of these 'fly patterns' can be shown to be more effective than, say, a piece of shoelace tied on a hook and colored with magic markers.
They are just traditional and VERY pretty to look at.
The passage of time caused some of the materials used in these flies to become either unavailable due to regulation, or very expensive due to lack of supply....
We could just make up a new fly that used readily available feathers and let these old style flies become naught but a curiosity..I mean, the fish don't feed...A Jock Scott is just an archaic fly pattern tied with very expensive materials to no good purpose (as far as fishing goes). Lots of pretty and flashy fly tying materials are available today...they'll work just as well, maybe better....
But, do we take this sensible alternative. Nope. Of course not. Kill that rare bird...charge thousands for a skin, even $10 for a single FEATHER, just so we can have an accurate copy of a fly intended for a fish that DOESN'T EAT....
I bet if the guy that cobbled together this (or any of these) ridiculously ornate Salmon Flies was still alive, he'd laugh himself to death...or call us all fools...maybe both.
I do admire the skill and craftsmanship that goes into producing such a thing...but using such expensive materials when acceptable alternatives are readily available has nothing to do with skill.....but it's your money..have fun...
Did I mention that these fish don't feed?? I still have trouble with the concept of even trying to fish for them....
I don't get baseball trading cards, either, though....this is sort of like that, only you can make up your own...
Buddy
buddy ,
thats as silly as me saying why buy a glass sculpture from you. it just sits on a shelf and collects dust. its an art form buddy.
mnklagoon,
I get that. I'm amazed by those that purchase my art. I tell everyone who asks that what I sell has no purpose other than aesthetics. I try to make sure that all of my creations do not have a 'use'.
I really, really admire the skill in creating these flies. As a craft, they are amazing.
What I find absolutely hilarious, though, is the 'cost' of the feathers/fur involved.
It's not that they aren't pretty...or even that they wouldn't catch a fish..(I doubt many $300 flies will see the water).
It's the whole getting hung up on using a particular 'feather'. It's like using another as a substitute, even if you can't 'see' the difference, is somehow cheating. I didn't make the rules here, don't know them, but find it absolutely fascinating....
I'd get those kind of prices if they were 'antique' flies tied when those materials were readily available...like any collectible: stamps, coins, etc., they are available in limited numbers...
But you can't print a new 'copy' of a rare stamp and sell it for the price of an 'original'...if you strated striking copies of rare coins, I doubt they'd be valuable...
But, if you can tie a fly well, using the same 'original' materials...it can be worth more than an original...it certainly costs more to tie.
I want to be very clear here...
I have no stake in this...I'm not 'against' the practice. If it's your thing, have fun with it.
I just find it very interesting, and a bit amusing.
Last summer I made a glass Faerie holding a shotgun for a young lad...I don't get it, but I'll take the challenge, AND the money.
Last week, it was a Ninja Penguin...
Fellow's got to eat.
Buddy
Buddy, how about some pictures of some of your art, sounds interesting.
Eric
It is not uncommon for a single Atlantic Salmon fly mounted in a fly plate or a shadow box and tied by a well known tyer to sell for $350 at live auctions and silent auctions.
And it is not just the Atlantic Salmon flies that sell like that either. Some people specialize in unique flies and those will bring in the same price when mounted in a box or plate.
They are works of art and as such they adorn the walls of people who appreciate the beauty of such flies.
Larry :D ---sagefisher---
I thought you'd like a little history now.
The 'Jock Scott' was tied first in 1850 for Lord John [Jock] Scott
by his ghillie, Jock [John] Scott, to fish the Tweed. There were a lot
of Scotts in the neighbourhood at the time, and at least two Jocks.
Still a popular fly, but usually a hair wing now-a-days.
http://www.theessentialfly.co.uk/use...ge/EF-1140.jpg
Price US: $1.90
http://www.theessentialfly.co.uk/use...ts/EF-1300.jpg
Price US: $1.80
Everyone has their opinion, but in this case a few facts are in order. The Jock Scott which is used as the compulsory fly for our Atlantic/Steelhead Tying Contest 2009 does REQUIRE substitutions for the 'exotic' feathers. Buddy, the fish in this case are Atlantic Salmon. They DO NOT die after spawning....they are documented cases of Atlantic salmon making the spawning trips over a period of five years (maybe more).
The Pacific salmon unfortunately do die after just spawning once, and while they supposedly don't eat, they will strike a fly.
No not that on a fly fishing forum--knowing what Buddy likes and his dislike for classics. He no dought has a web site to advertise his glass-------BILLQuote:
Originally Posted by Eric-WD
Actually,....
I don't have a web site.
I make/sell glass sculptures....doesn't ship well.
I'd rather talk directly to my customers anyway.
For those who are interested, I've attached a couple of thumbnails...
Buddy
Well said Deanna, this is a Fly Tying section on a Fly Fishing Site.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but get the facts right if there
is going to be an extensive negative rant.
Also, good on ye Bill.
Buddy, thanks for sharing with us, that is great sculpture
Eric
Donald, let's recap...Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald Nicolson
One Scot named John Scott a.k.a. "Jock", who worked for another Scot named John "Jock" Scott tied a fly called the Jock Scott for his boss called "Jock" Scott.
C'mon Donald, y'all just do this sort of thing to confuse the English (and Americans), don't you.
;)
Warm regards,
Ed
Two pages of posts and nobody mentions the googly eyes?
if you got enough money to spend $100 bux on a single fly then please by all means throw me a few hundred bones so I can get everything possible that I need to tie every pattern I'd ever need to tie. lmao. why spend that much when you can get cheaper flies that still work? dang! I wish I knew what it was like to be able to waste that much money on something as simple as that!!!
Fish, a $300 fly should be a fine example of the fly tiers art. The Jock Scott that sells for $300 is a full dress married wing Atlantic Salmon Fly. Chances are it's dressed on a custom, hand made, blind eye hook that ranges in price from $15 to $30 per hook. The cost of other materials is also very high as has been stated before. The floss used on the body is silk of the finest quality without a bit of fuzz showing or the smallest lump or dip. Tinsels are all metal, no mylar here, with each wrap carefully spaced. Dubbing is either seal fur or pigs wool carefully dyed to the correct colors, many using old time dying methods. On the finished fly not a single feather barb is out of place, it is perfect in it's form and color. This is something that is placed in a protective frame with the fly dressers signature card to be handed down to children and grandchildren.
However, if you have enough money you could take that perfect fly, loop a tippet through the silk gut eye, cast it into the water and it most likely would still take an Atlantic Salmon or chrome bright Steelhead
Hi Buddy,
Those glass sculptures are absolutely beautiful. You have an amazing talent. 8T :)
Eric and 8T,
Thank you.
Buddy
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdD
We need to be clear on this. Not all John Scotts are called "Jock". Not all Jock Scotts are called "John". Not all JohnScotts tie Jock Scotts - in fact, this one doesn't tie any at all.
JohnScott