Need some expert advice/help!

I recently picked up an ODC 816 (Creek Co) inflatable pontoon and have used it in warm water and moving water.
The first hurdle was car topping. It was somewhat wider (4' 6") than the rack on my Jeep Grand Cherokee. I solved that problem with a rack modification and it seems to work well. Strapping it down has become a snap too.

On my first trip on the Duck River I ran into a problem on the upstream return to the take out spot. First we were realy humping butt to beat a thunder storm! Row the slow sections and wade the shallow fast sections. About 100 yards from the landing I could make very little headway in a fast deep section! I made it to wadable water and had just about enough strength to tow it to shore, fortunatly it was close enough to the car that after a long rest I was able to get it loaded up for the trip home. (Keep in mind that I'm pushing 68 years old but not in too bad of shape!)
Because of this I'm adding a trolling motor just for this type of situation and am asking for advice/help from others that may have added trolling motors to their 'toon's. I have the kit from Creek Co. and a friend is going to loan me a trolling motor to try. I'm concerned about balancing the boat for the added weight in the stern. It does seem to be a little nose heavy now.

I think I tend to under inflate the boat and this may have enhanced the inability to row against the current! Just how hard to you make your pontoons? I've been using a Coleman re-chargable air pump and don't think it does the job, 2 strokes with a hand pump after the Coleman get it to where I can just dent it with my thumb! I do let it normalize in the cool water and add air but I think I need to do that with the hand pump.
Not much to be concerned about with altitude here, just intense sun.

Some of the most beautiful water I've ever seen is available here by boat only, the fishing is great but almost secondary. Drifting along the limestone cliffs of the rivers here is one of the most peaceful things I've ever experianced! The Trout and Blue Gills only add to it!

I did get babtised in the Duck last Saturday, but that is another story!

Jack, What are your questions?

Just as a starter...watch where you place the seat for varying loads.

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Originally Posted by Jack Hise

I'm concerned about balancing the boat for the added weight in the stern. It does seem to be a little nose heavy now.

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I would just position the frame on the pontoons so that the boat balances well while I'm in the seat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jack Hise

I think I tend to under inflate the boat and this may have enhanced the inability to row against the current! Just how hard to you make your pontoons?

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I inflate with the high capacity 2-way hand pump until the pontoons are firm, no dents. I also think that the firmer they are, the easier it is to row against current. I don't worry about pontoon pressure when the they are in the water. Water keeps them cool. But when they are out of the water, the sun might raise the pressure so I would take some air out.

BTW, I'm no expert. :lol:

Duckster;
Balance and inflation.
I don't have much room to move the seat forward, maybe an inch or 2! But that may be all it takes. I'll be trying it out Thursday, then look at seat placement.
Thanks for the quick respose!

dixie;
That is a big help, thank you!! Maybe I worry to much about over inflation!!

I said firm. Now don't get carried away and pop a pontoon, Jack. :)

I think when most folks ...pop...they forget and go from one extreme to another temp and/or altitude...
Jack , I do think folks worry too much about over heavyinflation...but the less quality they buy the more they should worry.

In my limited experience a little change in the seat can make a big difference...toons vary with how much you can adjust the seat and or the frame, as Robert said...

I don't know what folks will recommend for a motor to do what you want...so that may dictate what battery you will have to use...those batteries really effect the balance...heavy

I only use a 32# thrust motor...not much power and that's on purpose so I don't need a lot of electric....

For my needs[ and again they may not be yours] I have two wheel chair batteries....they are deep cycle...won't leak when tipped... and weigh a lot less.....I can putz around a lake for a half a day with one...come in and change batteries...of course most of us have to come in sooner than that for obvious reasons...

This may not be helpful at all....

ducksterThe Creek Co. recommends a 34# thrust min. for the816. Wally World has one with a 28" shaft (another consideration). I Googled Wheelchair batteries but got lost in the specs!! What are the specs of your batteries?
Can you email be at jhise@cafes.net I'd like to send you some photos of what I've done so far and get your opinion.

Hey Jack,

Sounds like your having fun learning the ropes with the new toon. Wish they
were more practical here.*G* Keep in mind, you can master the skills and
build confidence in more user friendly areas. Also, a skilled partner can show
you more in a day than you'll learn going solo or reading about it in a week.
If your streams have canoe or kayak liveries on them, you may be able to get
your vehicle delivered to a landing down stream and do away with the problem
of fighting the flow on the return. At a minimum, I'd consider starting my trip
upstream with the realization that when I got tired, the downstream return to
my vehicle would be a piece of cake.*G* Have fun and do be careful. Warm
regards, Jim

There's folks that make some pretty good money taxiing vehicles from put-in to take-out.

Jim;
I've never taken a "Loner" trip yet. I have Warren along to keep me out of trouble! No canoe liveries here so it's difficult to spot a vehicle without doing it yourself.
Warren and I have figured out that we can get his Hobi in his truck and get mine on top for a trip back to the start point.
I received an email from Phil Huewe that helped a lot. Ducksterman and Dixieangler have been more that a big help too.
I think one of my major problems has been afraid to pump that baby up! While puttering in the garage this evening (down here puttering is "Rat Killin'"!) I had to pump it up again as the temps droped.
My next outing will be in warm water to assure that I have everything put togather right and balanced!
Thanks to everone for thier help and keep it comming!!

Hey, Jack...Phil Huewe = Ducksterman....I'm waiting for those pictures :)

And Jack...does your toon have a swiveling seat?....if not it's well worth it to go to Wally World and pick up a swivel adapter and install it....

duckster (aka phil!!) Ya tricked me!! Swivel seat was the first thing installed! I raised it a bit by using the spring loaded mount and upside down base plate.

A couple of attempts to move the thread off course. (Avast there, matey! Stand by and prepare to by hi jacked!) :shock:

First off I have to admit that Jack is in pretty good shape for a guy pushing his 68th birthday (and dragging 67 behind). Where he floats, there is only one really easy access point for a 'toon and that is near the base of a dam that stands about 110 feet tall. He basically has to float down and row back up. Jack lived in the "hilly region" (pah! 8) ) of the Lower Penninsula of Michigan (a troll!) before he moved to Tennessee and has been getting used to seeing real hills and soils that are not composed of sand and gravel. (We wanted to introduce him to Summer, but this has been a pretty mild one so far.)

I still think that a small canoe is the way to go, but I have a lot more time in canoes than I do in infaltables, er, inflatables. But don't waste too much pity on him. If he doesn't get in at least 4 trips a week down to a river, it's only because he's being lazy. :) And that's pretty bad 'cause he lives only 10-15 minutes from trout.

take care,
Ed

Hey Jack,


Something to be mindful of with respect to the air pressure in your pontoon tanks is how hull rigidity affects speed and maneuverability.

Whether it be canoe, kayak, pontoon boat or what, if the hull flexes (called "oil canning") the craft will lose some or all function of its hydrodynamic design. This happens because water stops flowing across the hull in the correct fashion.

To illustrate, let's say another person is rowing your pontoon boat across a swimming pool, and you are swimming underwater beneath your boat looking straight up at the bottom of your pontoon tanks. If the pontoons are under-inflated, what exactly will you see? Easy: you'd notice that the bottom surface of the pontoon tanks are deformed. They are being squeezed upward, flattened out by water pressure. They may even take on a concave shape. The effect of such deformations is to create areas of differential turbulence that SLOW the movement of the pontoons through the water.

Whereas if the pontoon tanks (your boat's twin "hulls") are properly inflated their surfaces will be rigid, or very nearly rigid. This stiffness of surface is the only thing that gives them the hydrodynamic ability they are designed for. Correct air pressure is what lets them slide through the water with minimum paddling effort on your part. And especially when you are paddling upwind, rigid pontoon hulls will help you because the pontoon tanks are not being compressed (flattened) on the bottom by incoming wave action.

As for safety, I think an under-inflated pontoon boat is a definite hazard to your health. Again, this is due to the "sogginess" of the pontoon tanks. Anytime your weight shifts (which it does many times when you're fishing) the tank that is bearing the load will deform, get squeezed and flattened. This flattening allows MORE weight to get shifted to that tank than would normally occur, resulting in easier tip-over.

With rigid pontoon tanks you will notice a sharper, cleaner ride in waves. But just like with automobile tires, a pontoon tank that is properly inflated will be rigid, thus it suffers LESS physical damage because its "sidewalls" are not flexing near as much. That flexing motion under load is what generates internal heat and breaks down the material on a car tire's sidewall. The same thing will happen to the "sidewalls" of an under-inflated pontoon boat's tanks.


Joe
"Better small than not at all."

Thanks Joe. I went back and studied some pictures Warren had taken on my first river trip. Definatly underinflated, even the frame is in the water! No wonder I had trouble in the faster water. I've found that the re-chargable electric pump is ok to get it inflated fast but it takes 3 - 5 strokes on the hand pump to get it firm.

Jack...a little more on inflation.... it does depend on how much room you have to transport...but I have found that when broken down the individual pontoons handle a lot easier if fairly inflated....e.g. sliding into the back of a pickup....I have had a small compressor for years and almost always carry my pontoon and /or float tubes inflated and then top off with the double pump if necessay...also I keep[kept] the side frames attached to the pontoons...just the seat and motor mount separate....

Jack, One thing I noticed that you might take into consideration. If you're not ferrying with a partner consider paddling upstream when you first get on the water. You are fresher, stronger and you can scout the water on the way up. Then float back to your put in point. I just couldn't think of floating downriver then trying to paddle back after some time on the water. Maybe they don't do it that way in Tennesee, but that how we do it on the prairie -- if we're not ferrying. JGW

I'm not sure it's done anymore but for years folks out here would put in... drift to the take out then hitch hike back to the put in and drive back to the take out...I guess those were better times.

JGW;
That's how it's normaly done here but the best spot is several miles away on the Elk River. Trying to get the bugs worked out closer to home.

Ducks, I certainly wasn't talking about your Oregon/Western rivers, which is a much different animal than what we have around here. I have a friend who puts in, fishes all day and cell phones his wife for a rondivoux. Younger people will float downstream with a collapsable bike in the canoe then bike back to their trucks. Sometimes I think so provencially and for that I apologize. JGW

JGW....
"Sometimes I think so provencially and for that I apologize."

Really I'm not sure why...I was philosophizing ... :?

I don't know about the "Philosophizing" but there will be "Pirateizing" of my thread!! I'm, as well as others are gitting some great information from you guys. And, if I may say so, your information may just save someone from serious problems some day!! In fact the information given so far could become a handbook for inflatables! It sure has helped me a lot!!

Is "Pirateizing" a new word? "You have Pirateized my post!", "No Pirateizing Allowed!!". My goodness "I feel more like I do now then when I did when got here"!!!

All kidding aside guys, this is the best place to be if you need help! I thank you all for the input and hope for more.

Hmmmm! Did I just "Piratize" my own thread??

"Is "Pirateizing" a new word? "You have Pirateized my post!", "No Pirateizing Allowed!!". My goodness "I feel more like I do now then when I did when got here"!!!"

I like that...I just hope I can remember it :roll:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jack Hise

I don't know about the "Philosophizing" but there will be "Pirateizing" of my thread!! I'm, as well as others are gitting some great information from you guys. And, if I may say so, your information may just save someone from serious problems some day!! In fact the information given so far could become a handbook for inflatables! It sure has helped me a lot!!

Is "Pirateizing" a new word? "You have Pirateized my post!", "No Pirateizing Allowed!!". My goodness "I feel more like I do now then when I did when got here"!!!

All kidding aside guys, this is the best place to be if you need help! I thank you all for the input and hope for more.

Hmmmm! Did I just "Piratize" my own thread??

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Hi Jack, yes, you did just... um... well... never mind...

BTW, Monday afternoon is looking pretty likely again. I'm not gonna have too much (i.e. enough) free time until October, so I'll have to take advantage of what opportunities if have. Fortunately there should still be PMD/sulphur hatches in the evenings in early October. Gotta love that.

Ed, who needs to remember to take his rod when he leaves to go fishing...

Ed;
Now that this thread is history!!
Monday will be good. Warren and I will gladly loan you a rod if you forget yours again. You could have had another hour of fishing!
I found my go - to fly box. It was in my waders, whew!!

Arrrr, mateys, ye been piratized yet again! The captain of the Renegade says "prepare to be boarded!"
I had some problems with the maiden voyage of my new 'toon last week, but I got the "Renegade" fixed up.
I noticed the inflation differences too, the 'toons were tight for the afternoon cruise, and a bit loose early the next AM when it was cooler. With tight 'toons, the boat handled better and was much faster on the lake. Lesson learned.
Also, my foot pegs were too close, and the boat seemed unstable (tipping forward) when i used the standing platform. Then , as I disassembled the boat, I discovered that I can move the seat a full 8 inches farther back! So for sure play with where you mount your seat. I also found that the trolling motor battery (a CB-27) really helps stabilize me on the standing platform; the extra weight on the back made the balance just right. DANBOB

Lookout Danbob, once he gets that trolling motor installed, boarding is going to be a lot more problematic. You'll need a distraction...


Ed

Jack, are your 'toon bladders pvc vinyl or urethane? Pump up until you can just depress your thumb in the fabric and it makes a dent. Urethane bladders you can inflate a little more and they aren't effected as much by water or air temp change as pvc. Change in altitude and temp will play havoc on inflatables.
When you talk about a Minnkota or Motor Guide trolling motor-I like Minnkota, get a DEEP CYCLE BATTERY ONLY. Not a marine battery. That's just for starting and it can't take the discharging and charging like a deep cycle can. Trojan Deep cycle batteries are probably the best you can get. IMO anyway.

I am going along with RS1 on the battery. Try placing the battery as close as you can behind your seat to put all the weight in the middle.
If you have the PVC bladders, put it in the water while you get dressed and what ever else, then check it for air.
I use a LVM pump (low volumne) and it fills the toons fast but I have to and prefer to top off with a hand pump.