Please critique this fly...

I was just playing around with an idea I had and ended up with this fly. The hook is a Mustad 94831 in size 8 and where the eyes are there is a 7/64" or 2.8mm tungsten bead. I painted the eyes on with fabric paint using yellow and then black for the center and then put 3 coats of Sally Hanson over it. Hopefully, I will get a chance to see if the fish like it and how it will respond in the water. I need your professional opinion on what you think, good or bad, before I tie up any more. Thanks in advance...

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o...h_IMGP0320.jpg

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Originally Posted by WarrenP

I was just playing around with an idea I had and ended up with this fly. The hook is a Mustad 94831 in size 8 and where the eyes are there is a 7/64" or 2.8mm tungsten bead. I painted the eyes on with fabric paint using yellow and then black for the center and then put 3 coats of Sally Hanson over it. Hopefully, I will get a chance to see if the fish like it and how it will respond in the water. I need your professional opinion on what you think, good or bad, before I tie up any more. Thanks in advance...

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o...h_IMGP0320.jpg

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Mickey Finns work, this should too. Nice looking fly. Did you mainly tie it up for, trout, bass????????????
This could be a great forage imitation.

Mojo,

My main target to try first will be trout. Our rivers here have a lot of young fry in them right now and I wanted to make a small streamer but wanted to weight it also and that is why I put the tungsten bead in. The bead is tied in about 1/8" behind the eye similiar to a Clouser. I like Clousers for bass but I did not want this streamer to be very large nor heavy this made for a small profile fly and the tungsten allowed me to keep it all small. Hopefully, I will get to try it out tomorrow or Monday for sure.

I agree with Mojo. I like it alot. It should do well. Do you think it will ride upside down with the barbell; that will put the lightside up and the brown side down. That may or may not be important. The fishies will let you know. Thanks for the tie, Warren.

mcsteff,

"Do you think it will ride upside down with the barbell"

Since I used a tungsten bead instead of a barbell, I am hoping it will ride hook down as the picture shows. If it does not, then I will tie some up and reverse the colors. I will know more after I get it in the water.

Thanks for your input....

It is nicely made. However, I feel the red "gill" section is too wide and is tied too far back. Bigger eyeballs would attract even better. My 3 cents..

Nice pattern

that fly would work great here fer bass with 2 or 3 strands of crystal flash on top... it would probably ride upside down because of the barbell eyes, making it even better fer fishin close to bottom... i like it...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WarrenP

I was just playing around with an idea I had and ended up with this fly. The hook is a Mustad 94831 in size 8 and where the eyes are there is a 7/64" or 2.8mm tungsten bead. I painted the eyes on with fabric paint using yellow and then black for the center and then put 3 coats of Sally Hanson over it. Hopefully, I will get a chance to see if the fish like it and how it will respond in the water. I need your professional opinion on what you think, good or bad, before I tie up any more. Thanks in advance...

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o...h_IMGP0320.jpg

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It looks like it will catch fish. Tie up a couple more and give it a good workout. Let us khow how it does. You make it very clear that you used a bead with the eyes painted on it. I'm not sure why some people think that it has barbell eyes.

My impressionable opinion is, it would catch fish. I like it. I think I'll try a few with olive as a top color as a bass fry. Looks real good.

Kirk

I really appreciate all the constructive reviews on this fly and I have made a couple more up and I tied one up with a narrower red band and larger eyes which were suggested by "flymaker2" and enclosed a picture of it. Once again, there is a tungsten bead incorporated into the head of the fly and the eyes are painted on the bead. It is not a barbell eye so the fly should not turn over and ride hook up. We will see after I get a chance to try it out on the river. My main goal was to create a smaller streamer that would come closer to matching the small fry which are in the rivers here at the present time plus I wanted it to go deeper faster and that is the purpose of the 2.8mm tungsten bead incorporated into the head of the fly. I am also hoping that the smaller size will cast better on my 4 weight. I do appreciate the suggestions from all you fly tyers.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o...h_IMGP0328.jpg

the fly will ride with the hook point up the way you have it tied which is good, just flip the colors
try yellow and black great color for trout

Id eat it.
David

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Originally Posted by Dblackman

Id eat it.
David

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You do and it'll get stuck when you poop. :eek: OUCH!

Warren,
I'll take a copy of the revision on the Delaware ( for smallmouth) here in PA. I like the narrower red band.
Coughlin

Warren,
Can't you toss some of them in the sink with water in it to test how it will float?
Hook up, hook down, sideways, eye down, sink? :confused:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WarrenP

I was just playing around with an idea I had and ended up with this fly. The hook is a Mustad 94831 in size 8 and where the eyes are there is a 7/64" or 2.8mm tungsten bead. I painted the eyes on with fabric paint using yellow and then black for the center and then put 3 coats of Sally Hanson over it. Hopefully, I will get a chance to see if the fish like it and how it will respond in the water. I need your professional opinion on what you think, good or bad, before I tie up any more. Thanks in advance...

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o...h_IMGP0320.jpg

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They kind of look like thunder creeks. Thunder creeks take fish and so will your fly.

http://globalflyfisher.com/streamers...k/patterns.htm

http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bb/s...ad.php?t=30359

coughlin,

I just may send you one to try out, but, it will be after I have had a chance to see how it reacts in the water here first. I may have to do some fine tuning on it. I will get back to you on this.

Sonny,

I already know that it will sink since the head has a tungsten bead in it and I want to test it in the rivers here. Water in a sink or glass is not moving like the river currents do and that is where I need to see how it will work plus a fly with tippett and fly line attached to it will react differently than one in a sink or glass. It does look like a Thunder Creek but the Thunder Creek has no weight incorporated into it like this does.

Hopefully, tomorrow I will get to the river and get a lot of answers to questions on this fly.

Thanks everyone,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WarrenP

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o...h_IMGP0328.jpg

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Now were talkin' ! That dog will hunt.

Thanks, flymaker2, your comments are appreciated. Hopefully, tomorrow, we will see how it reacts to river currents and see if we can get some feedback from a fish!:)

Hi WarrenP,

I really like the colour combination. I also thought the red section extended a wee bit too far and much prefer the proportions in the later one. I was thinking a few strands of peacock sword added as a topping to the first one would look really nice, a similar suggestion was offered earlier in the thread as well. That being said, I suspect you will catch fish with the original design, and it is always worth giving it a go as data trumps theory every time!

- Jeff

Warren, good deal. Let me know when you're ready and I'll send my address via pm. Will certainly send something in return.
Coughlin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WarrenP

I really appreciate all the constructive reviews on this fly and I have made a couple more up and I tied one up with a narrower red band and larger eyes which were suggested by "flymaker2" and enclosed a picture of it. Once again, there is a tungsten bead incorporated into the head of the fly and the eyes are painted on the bead. It is not a barbell eye so the fly should not turn over and ride hook up. We will see after I get a chance to try it out on the river. My main goal was to create a smaller streamer that would come closer to matching the small fry which are in the rivers here at the present time plus I wanted it to go deeper faster and that is the purpose of the 2.8mm tungsten bead incorporated into the head of the fly. I am also hoping that the smaller size will cast better on my 4 weight. I do appreciate the suggestions from all you fly tyers.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o...h_IMGP0328.jpg

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Warren, that's a very good looking pattern~ Perhaps a strand or two of Krystalflash?

Don't forget about that word "sparse" tho.

Jeremy.

I like the second fly better as well. A tiny bit more sparse, add a couple of strands of Krystal Flash as somebody else mentioned. It should work great! It does resemble a Thunder Creek. If you like the Thunder Creek style...you can make it with a few lead wraps if you want the fly to go further down in the water column. Regardless, both the flies you posted will catch fish, and I like both patterns. The second picture I especially like. Good job! :D

Warren, I'll second what kelkay said.

I'm sure that you'll take dozens of hapless Brownies on the Elk and a rainbow or two from the Duck,this week.
I'll be rotting in my cube. <grump-grump-grump>

Have fun, SOMEbody's got to. (Watch out, you never know where Betty will show up.)
;)

Ed

Well I got up this morning and there was a wind blowing which tells me that we do have a front of some kind coming through today. Around noon the sky was very dark and it looked like it could start raining at any time, but, I decided I had to try the flies (I tied up 5) somewhere to see what they did in the water. Not wanting to drive the 22 miles to the best trout water on the Elk River and getting rained out, I chose to go to the Duck River, which is only about 12 miles, and that way I could be close to the truck if the weather turned bad. The Duck is running about 70 degrees so I did not expect to find any trout. As I drove to the Duck there were a few drops of rain falling on the windshield but I drove on and when I got to the Duck there were already some people fishing where I wanted to try the flies so I drove up to the boat ram on Normandy Lake and decided to see how the fly worked. I tied on the last fly I posted a picture of and dropped it in the water to see if it turned over or rode hook down. As soon as it was in the water 3 bluegill attacked it! :) On the second cast I caught a Kentucky Largemouth bass about 8 inches long and a few casts later had a Smallmouth bass about 8 inches long. Could not get a picture of the Smallmouth because he got off before I could get the camera out of the vest. Well, I know the fish like it. I did notice that the fly did turn over, so, I guess I will need to reverse the colors. I do not understand how using a bead makes the fly turn over unless it is because of where I placed the bead. I did not tie the bead in against the hook eye. It is tied in about 1/8" or a little less behind the eye. I think I will tie one up tonight with the bead up against the hook eye and try it to see if the fly still turns over and rides hook up. If it does, I have to wonder if my other trout flies (flymphs, etc.) ride hook up also because of the bead. It clouded up again and it rained a little but no lightening so I continued on with fishing. Decided to drive back down to the river and see if the other fishermen were still there and they had left. I fished under the bridge and did not find any trout. Checked the water temperature in the shaded area from the overhead bridge and found the water at 70 degrees. Not good for any trout. I tried all the other flies and they all turned over or onto their sides, so, move the bead against the fly and see if that changes and if it does not, then reverse the colors. In the Duck River I did manage to catch 4 Black Perch, one bluegill and one walleye all on the first fly I posted. So, I do not think the width of the red band made any difference to the fish. Overall, I did learn that the fly will catch fish and that the bead makes it turn over and ride hook up or to the side. I think I will try it tomorrow in the Elk River on the trout and see what they think. I will retie some of the flies tonight and put the bead against the hook to see if it still turns the fly over and I will also tie some with the colors reversed. I am thinking about tying some in the "round". In other words, the material will go all around the hook so that it will not make any difference if the hook is up, down or to the side, the fly will still look the same. A lot like a bugger is tied.

So, if the weather permits tomorrow, I will find out if the bead up against the eye makes the hook turn over and I will try some with the colors reversed and try one tied in the "round". I honestly think, after seeing the fly in the water today, that the trout will love it and it just may produce some of the larger trout in the Elk River looking for minnows. Had a good time experimenting and still went over to my Mom's house and mowed her yard before the sky did open up and we got a nice rain. Here are some pictures of the fish today:

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o...h_IMGP0330.jpg

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o...h_IMGP0331.jpg

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o...h_IMGP0334.jpg

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o...h_IMGP0336.jpg

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o...h_IMGP0338.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WarrenP

Thanks, flymaker2, your comments are appreciated. Hopefully, tomorrow, we will see how it reacts to river currents and see if we can get some feedback from a fish!:)

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You are welcome WarrenP. So to capture all the critiques given so far: Keep the narrow red gill band, bigger eyes, and then return to the sparse tie of the original image and then add a little flash to taste. The hurl on the back is always a good idea on bait batterns IMO. Doesn't take much to get the contrast. You could try the pattern with no flash, then a tye with one strand and another with hurl and a few strands. By the time you are done you'll have a pattern worth repeating! Good luck and have fun..

Edit:

Saw the report. Nice going: I feel the reason that the fly turned upside down is because you are using a hook with a downturned eye. Think about it. Streamers are best tied with upturned hook eyes. Orvis makes streamer hooks with the hook eye vertical. I like these and use them too. My favorite streamer hooks are from Galic Supreme which have a slightly upturned eye. Owner makes some good hooks with upturned eyes. Try a new hook style before re-inventing the pattern that seems to be working for you. Just my 3 cents again..

Cool pics!..

flymaker2,

After my experimenting today, see my other post, I will incorporate all the changes you mentioned in the flies tonight and if the weather permits, I will be out on the Elk River tomorrow to see how they do on the trout. Won't be able to stay real late because we have our Lynchburg Fly Fishing club meeting at the campgrounds on Normandy Lake at 6:30pm and I plan to make to freezers of ice cream for it. One freezer of Root Beer ice cream and one of Sun Drop ice cream. May be late before I get home from it, so, I may not be able to post a fishing report until Wednesday.

Just in case someone wants to know how the ice cream will be made:

All you need to do is mix one can of sweetened condensed milk with one 2 liter bottle of your favorite soda and freeze it. Very easy and very good.

It was exciting to get your report. I tied a couple of heavy bead head flies, and now I am wondering if mine are gonna flop over on me too. I think they eye is straight/horizontal...so maybe they will be okay. Thanks for that update...I knew they would catch fish, I had no doubt about that! :D

I did retie the little streamer and put the tungsten bead up against the hook eye and tied 2 others and reversed the colors. I did get a little time yesterday, Tuesday, to go to the trout river and give them a try. What I found was the bead did turn the fly over no matter where the bead was placed. I think "flymaker2" has nailed it and that is the turned down eye of the hook is what is really causing the turn over. Since I do not own any up turned eye hooks, I cannot test that, but, when I look at the hook in the vise with the bead on it, I feel "flymaker2" is right on. I did not get any "takers" on the streamer yesterday. I watched the trout chase it down and just nip at it but would never take it. I was a little discouraged because I really like the looks of the streamer and enjoy fishing it, but, I knew I would be going back today with more time to fish, so, I kept my spirits up.

Today, Wednesday, Tom Roberts ("doublewide" on FAOL) and I fished the Elk River and once again I gave the little streamer a good try, but, no takers! I decided that I needed to catch some trout, so, I removed the little streamer and tied on my version of a "Reversed Spider" and caught 15 brown trout and had that many on that just came "unbuttoned". They were not monsters, but, they sure were a lot of fun. Tom probably had as many as I caught and, he to, caught his on the "Reversed Spider". As we were fishing, I noticed that my legs were very numb and I decided to check the water temperature. It was 50 degrees! Unless you are a trout fisherman/fisherwomen, there is no way you can explain to anyone how you could be so cold on such a very hot and humid day as today was in Tennessee! Tom told me his feet felt like he had been out rabbit hunting on a very cold day! Overall, we both had a great day and I have not given up on my streamer. I think it might do better if I just get out my NuCanoe and get somewhere on the river that is less traveled by fly fishermen. I feel the larger trout will take the streamer. When I get the chance to make the float trip, I will report the results.

I have attached a picture of a little blue critter that stayed with me most of the day and I just liked its company and thought it was pretty. I also attached a picture of just one of the 15 browns I caught today and I attached a picture of my version of the "Reversed Spider" which I find works real well late summer into the fall of the year.

Thanks everyone for all the help.

coughlin - send me a PM with your home mailing address on it and I will send you some samples of my little streamer and maybe you can give a better report on smallies.

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o...oserforWeb.jpg

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o...rownforWeb.jpg

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o...h_IMGP0151.jpg

[QUOTE=WarrenP;313011]Well I got up this morning and there was a wind blowing which tells me that we do have a front of some kind coming through today. Around noon the sky was very dark and it looked like it could start raining at any time, but, I decided I had to try the flies (I tied up 5) somewhere to see what they did in the water. Not wanting to drive the 22 miles to the best trout water on the Elk River and getting rained out, I chose to go to the Duck River, which is only about 12 miles, and that way I could be close to the truck if the weather turned bad. The Duck is running about 70 degrees so I did not expect to find any trout. As I drove to the Duck there were a few drops of rain falling on the windshield but I drove on and when I got to the Duck there were already some people fishing where I wanted to try the flies so I drove up to the boat ram on Normandy Lake and decided to see how the fly worked. I tied on the last fly I posted a picture of and dropped it in the water to see if it turned over or rode hook down. As...



Warren...

The fly looks great....just fine.

I've also have heard about down vs. up turned eyes influencing how the hook rides, but still haven't really confirmed it all.
Is there a possibility that the wing you've made (looks like bucktail) is too thick, making the hook ride up? Maybe, thin it out a little or spread it around the hook evenly?


My mentor always said ( and I DO believe it): "EVERY fly, WILL catch a fish....it's just a matter of when."

Keep tying and enjoy!


Cheers,
Larry


PS
Oh, and if you're going to use krystal flash or hurl, a little goes a long way!

Warren,
How are you? Looks like the fishing down there has been good to you!

I love the picture of your blue critter. It turned out great! If you recall, that is a shot I myself missed while I was there. I had a really colorful one land on my Sage Fli (which looks like what you were using too) while we were fishing Dement Bridge, and thought my daughter would love the pic, especially with the color contrast. Alas, it flew away before I could gets a picture...

My daughter would be the first to tell you that your critter is a blue damselfly. ;)

Take care mate!

PS - Would you mind e-mailing me the full-sized version of that pic (either address is fine)?

Warren,
It's been fun watching you develop this fly.
I look forward to more about it.
Always ready to learn more. ;)

"PS - Would you mind e-mailing me the full-sized version of that pic (either address is fine)? "

Jared, I sent you the full size plus a reduced size. Let me know if they did not make the trip. Take care my friend and come fishing as soon as you can. Caught 15 trout today during off and on rain and the Tilley kept my head dry! Love the hat. Thanks so much!!!

"Warren,
It's been fun watching you develop this fly.
I look forward to more about it.
Always ready to learn more. :wink: "

Sonny,

I sent 2 of the streamers to "Coughlin" and he is going to test drive them on smallies in the Delaware as soon as it stops raining there, so, we will wait for his post on how they worked for him. Thanks for the encouragement...