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Several instructional items on CDCs by Al Campbell, Dave Hughes etc. imply that the is a single CDC feather. I have several packs of CDC that would require at least 4 or more feathers to provide the amount of fibers shown in their photos. Have I missed something or are my feathers just inferior quality?
Ray -
I usually end up using several feathers on the patterns I tie with CDC. On a really small fly, one or two feathers might do it, but even on a size 16 Harrop's Henry's Fork Caddis I'm using three. Maybe a parachute post or wings on a small mayfly would only require one, or a small emerger ??
Might use fewer feathers by stripping the fibers off the stem of one feather instead of "stacking" them the way I've been doing it. But when I've tried that, I find the fibers difficult to control, what with the very rough skin on my fingers.
I'm using high quality CDC from a couple hunters. I doubt that that is the problem you're having ??
John
Ray and John,
It seems like many of the early books about CDC feathers implied that a single feather could float a lead ingot. Many of the new books and recipe sources are now acknowledging the fact that three, four or even more CDCs may be needed to make flies behave properly. 8T :)
Ray,
I think the Marryat CDC tool is the best investment you can make if you use CDC for wings (unless you are handier than I am and can make your own). It enables you to use the entire feather with basically no waste and it is easy to use. If you have decently sized feathers, using all the fibers on one feather will make a pretty full wing on most flies.
Joe
Joe -
I hadn't heard of the Marryat CDC tool before your post here. I googled it and just got a lot of websites selling the product, none describing it or how it is used, or reviews.
Can you elaborate on it ?? Would much appreciate it.
Thanks.
John
John,
It looks like a bodkin but has three prongs instead of one. You stroke the CDC fibers until they are at 90 degrees from the stem. You then insert the very tip of the feather in between the prongs and roll up the feather along the stem, leaving you with all of the fibers clumped together sticking out from both sides of the tightly rolled up stem. Fold the rolled up feather in half (if you want all of the fibers. If you just need half of them don't fold it in half), clip the tightly rolled up stem off, and tie in the clump of CDC fibers (or tie it in first and then clip the stem. This seems to sometimes keep the fibers together easier). You can use almost every bit of every fiber on the feather.
I hope this is understandable. Maybe someone else who has one can describe it better than I.
Joe
Ray normally CDC (Which means literally ducks arse or ducks *** in your language) are very small sparce feathers. Mark Pettijean (the magic tool man) does sell some larger ones, but I find they have a much thicker stem, and even these you need at least two feathers.
I have got the marryat tool, which does work and its easy to use, however the folding of the feather at the end so you can cut off the stem leaves you with very short fibres in most cases. I also have the magic tool from Marc Pettijean and this works great, but you still need two, three or more feathers to make a decent body or wing.
Oliver Edwards in his videos demonstrates taking out part of the centre stems creating a V shape in the feather and tying them in then pulling the feathers back so the thread comes off the stems, but he uses several feathers stacked.
Ray,
There are 4 different types of cdc feathers. If you bought a pack you probably have mostly type 4, but some of the others as well. Maybe the pattern was using a puff?
here's a link:
http://www.flyfisherman.com/ftb/hwcdc/
From a practical stand point I buy the packs and cdc = cdc and call it good. Heck they've already got me speaking french (freedom feathers anyone?). My flies are scruffy enough and I have enough materials already without cdc x 4 x # colors I use. But you will see oiler puffs sold at a bit of a premium, as well as "cdc" which can include different types but is mostly type 4. If you look in your pack you'll probably be able to spot the different types with the help of the article.
If I had .000000001 % of the tying skills as Hans and some of the other folks on this board, I'd probably be a lot more attentive to the types and their optimal uses, but all have those happening water repellant and air trappiness qualities you'll come to know and love. i just use enough to get it done, which maybe one puff or a few type 4's or whatever whatever and whatever.
As others have said on many cdc threads on the board, don't use standard paste or liquid floatant on cdc, (though some pretreat with Rainex) but a dive and shake in silica gel or other dry powder will restore them and add a great deal of sparkle from trapped air which can be a very good thing for caddis and mayfly emergers.
Hope this helps.
peregrines
Joe -
Thanks much for the explanation of the Marryat tool and how to use it. ( If I can figure that out on a Monday morning, you must have done a good job describing how it works !! )
I haven't tried any of the onstream drying powders. Generally, just blowing on the CDC will be enough to dry it ( at least for those of us with hot air to spare ). Maybe that is where the preen oil comes in - keeps the fibers from becoming waterlogged and clumping longer, as they will do at some point ??
John
John,
It's "suggested" you NOT use any regular floatants on CDC. I found a CDC oil at FeatherCraft that replenishes the natural oil and keeps the fly high and dry. Costs a bit more than Frog Fanny but really works on CDC's and any really delicate little dry fly.
Betty
I doubt that any cdc that has been processed...dyed, etc. has any oil left.
I will add another vote for the Marryat tool. I'm new to fly tying but tie a number of CDC Caddis. I was wasting too much material until I started using the tool.
Betty - do you apply the CDC Oil prior to using the fly, after it has been waterlogged, or both? I'm currenty in the chamois/wonder cloth dry then apply frog's fanny camp. It works well but I'm always looking for options that may be better.
regular gel floatants such as gink will work with cdc feathers if applied very sparingly.
I use the CDC oil before casting the first time. Usually after the fly has been whacked a couple dozen times :p I'll dry it off on a chamois, and re apply. It only takes a minute amount to keep the fly up for extended periods. When you strip it from the water, you'd swear it'd never been wet. It only starts sinking after copious amounts of fish slime have been applied ... by fish!!
Ducksterman, after they dye the CDC they reapply the oils to the plumes. Natural CDC is either white or grey.Quote:
Originally Posted by ducksterman
I have tried oiler plumes but frankly they are too small and messy (small and fiddley) to use. I am sure they have their place and their followers but I am not one of them.
If you use CDC flies, F flies or shuttlecocks etc. Then like Betty says use the CDC oil. You only need apply it very seldom during a session. CDC floats like a cork.
I would NOT apply normal floatants, gink or the like, cause even sparingly they will stick down the fine fibres and the fly will not work properly.
well mick, you can't be applying the gink sparingly enough ;) as I have found that it works just fine.
I usually use two feathers on small flies (or two pieces of one feather--tip then the next segment towards the butt), four on large flies or flies I want to float high. For flat water I tie flies that are more sparse, for choppy water I like them full.
Experiment and see how much it takes to achieve your purpose.
"Ducksterman, after they dye the CDC they reapply the oils to the plumes. Natural CDC is either white or grey."
Thanks Mick, didn't know that.
There's a "fair" book I've got called "Tying Flies with CDC" by Leon Links. It's heavy on the European development and use of CDC in tying flies. That's not a criticism, just an observation. These folks were the innovators and first users of CDC (at least according to the book). Anyway, the books a decent read and had some pretty good information on the feather types, tying techniques, etc. Has some great photography but it's a little thin on some details and can be incomplete on tying instructions for some of the examples. The upside is, it can be had fairly inexpensively.
As far as treatments I've found nothing better than Frogs Fanny or the less expensive version, Fumed Silica (available by the quart for the same price as the little Frog Fanny Bottle!). Although, I am intrigued by Betty's reference to CDC Oil. Might have to try that out.
John Scott turned me on to a Caddis pattern that I like (thanks John) and in size 16's it seems to work best with three feathers. I think CDC ties some pretty cool flies and I intend to try some experimentation with nymphs and more emerger patterns from the above referenced book.
I've found the tread pretty interesting, good job folks!
FYI ...
RENE HARROP CDC DRESSING
Item # HC450 $5.95
RENE HARROP'S "NATURAL CDC FLY DRESSING" This is the original floatant/dressing for CDC flies and delicate dry flies made from real preen-oil. The best for levitating those deadly CDC emergers in the surface film.
And, John's fly!! OMG!!! That is one of the kewlest flies I've tied and used in a long time!! Add a half a drop of the oil to that one and watch that puppy float ,,, between massive strikes!!!
Betty -
Using high quality CDC for that Harrop's Henry's Fork Caddis, I caught 33 smaller rainbow and brookies WITHOUT TREATING THE CDC IN ANY WAY before I put the fly to rest in the fly box.
Having said that, since I learned that pattern in a lesson by Leslie Harrop and that lesson was a real help in using CDC in any kind of fly, I would encourage EVERYONE to buy the product you identified ( yours truly excepted, of course ) !!
John
( Not to detract from or change the discussion, I hope, but I tied that caddis pattern using a dark deer hair in place of CDC for the wing - and it is still a killer pattern. )
I'm in the UK and 90% of the dry flies I tie and use contain CDC either in the body or the wings. If making a deer hair wing on a small fly I will always include CDC as a mix.Quote:
Originally Posted by alra195