anyone help? (knots)

got a question.. i have a Matarelli finisher, and a Thompson finisher.
i wrap my thread counter clockwise, (lefty) the Thompson finisher instructs you to rotate clockwise around the eye... i assume by finishing clockwise against the counter clockwise wraps is as good as pissing in the wind...
if i put a few half hitch loops in.. say three... is that enough to reverse the direction? or should i just stick to the Matarelli finisher? or do they make a counter clock Thompson? anyone got any ideas?

hoping for help,
spoof

Yes! Learn to wrap your thread clockwise throughout the tying process.

Allan

I almost always half-hitch but when I do use a whip finish, I do it by hand; hands don't care if you're tying clockwise or counter.

Regards,
Scott

This is too hard to see in my head, but just one half-hitch should be enough to allow you to reverse the thread.

Allan, learning to wrap everything clockwise would be awkward, im left handed so the vise and eye of hook are too the left...

Scott, i always do half-hitch's throughout, safer that way! lol i also whip finish with my hands, but sometimes the fly calls for a Thompson...

i agree Steven, but by reversing the thread you create a weak point, or so i think.... i always do at least 3 half hitch's (by hand) before whip finishing, it seems to give the thread the chance to lock the knots together.....

Spoof,

Sorry I couldn't help. I tie for speed and I tie for myself and a double half-hitch (+ a little Sally Hanson) is just about all I ever need. Hope you find your answer.

Regards,
Scott

I think if you are wrapping left handed, you can just follow the directions for the clockwise whip finish.

Spoof -

I'm a left-hand tyer myself and usually I do a few half-hitches at the end and don't bother with a whip finish at all.

Most tying instructions assume a right-hand tyer so wrap directions are geared to them. Don't get hung up so much on the DIRECTION of the whip finish. The concept here is that you want to wrap the whip finish the same way as you've been wrapping the thread on the fly. So a left-hand tyer is wrapping the thread on the hook in a counter-clockwise direction (using your left hand to wrap the bobbin) so when you do the whip finish using the Matarelli tool you'll wrap that in the same counter-clockwise direction.

I know there are issues with how thread is manufactured and the twist that forms during the process. And I've read a left-hand tyer is actually 'unwinding' the thread as they wrap on a hook but IMO I don't know how much it really affects the tying process or the end result. And you can always spin your bobbin to re-tighten your thread if necessary.

And remember, us lefties are the only one's in our RIGHT MIND!

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Originally Posted by ScottP

Spoof,

Sorry I couldn't help. I tie for speed and I tie for myself and a double half-hitch (+ a little Sally Hanson) is just about all I ever need. Hope you find your answer.

Regards,
Scott

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thanks for the input, every post helps :) i just tried to wrap a scud clockwise.... half was clockwise, half was counter... lol damn muscle memory!!

ha that funny couse' we are more right brained and left, and right mind..ha....lol (slight chuckle)
i honestly dont trust my half-hitches... i always feel like im doing them wrong, maybe i am....
i do use a matarelli finisher, hell the first one i had was fashioned out of a clothes hanger, (looked bought too)
but im mainly talking about the thompson finisher.... designed to go clockwise.... none of my flies have fallen apart yet..... yet... lol
lefty's unite!!!
spoof

At least your muscles have memory, sometimes mine have dementia! Just keep on keeping on, John.

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Originally Posted by spoof85

Scott, i always do half-hitch's throughout, safer that way!

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That seems like a good idea. Could you (or anyone else) elaborate on this?

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Originally Posted by herefishy

I think if you are wrapping left handed, you can just follow the directions for the clockwise whip finish.

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i see what u are saying, but i wrap counter clockwise

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Originally Posted by Fishing Jill

That seems like a good idea. Could you (or anyone else) elaborate on this?

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i like to alot on nymph hooks, there shape always seems to want to drop the thread off the end, example: start normal lock your thread down, cut the tag, tie in chenille, quick wrap thread forward to where u want to end the body, half hitch, wrap chenille, half hitch, wrap hackle...... you get the idea lol
i do it constantly with spun deer hair bodies... however i think u almost have to... hair, spin, pull everthing back, 2 wraps, 2 half hitches... repeat...
spoof

I've never used the Thompson finisher but check out this page here on FAOL:

http://flyanglersonline.com/flytying...ners/part6.php

If you watch the video the demo is based on a right-hand tyer and yes, its turned in a clockwise direction. Now, if you were to turn everything around (fly points to the left) you'd now have the orientation of a left hand tyer. And the whip finisher would be in your left hand.

At this point can't you wrap the finisher in a counter-clockwise direction i.e the same direction that you've been wrapping your thread all along?

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Originally Posted by skondolf

I've never used the Thompson finisher but check out this page here on FAOL:

http://flyanglersonline.com/flytying...ners/part6.php

If you watch the video the demo is based on a right-hand tyer and yes, its turned in a clockwise direction. Now, if you were to turn everything around (fly points to the left) you'd now have the orientation of a left hand tyer. And the whip finisher would be in your left hand.

At this point can't you wrap the finisher in a counter-clockwise direction i.e the same direction that you've been wrapping your thread all along?

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no, if u notice when he puts his finger on the finisher to release the thread, he rotates counter-clockwise... trust me ive tried, it slips off, or if u are successful when u go to release the thread u lock it onto the shaft instead of the open part of the S... damn... that's hard to explain without visual aid.. lol

Spoof,

I have a Thompson whip finisher.

I'm right handed but I wrap my thread 'backwards' to what every book/manual recommends or shows. Always have.

I just use the whip finisher in the same direction I'm wrapping the thread. Works fine.

Don't get too caught up in the directions. The whip finish is just wrapping thread over itself to lock it in place. Every tool I've ever used for this will do it in either direction.

Buddy

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Originally Posted by spoof85

Allan, learning to wrap everything clockwise would be awkward, im left handed so the vise and eye of hook are too the left...

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spoof,

You didn't say you were 'left handed'. Makes a difference as long as you are consistently winding the thread away from your body. That being the case, just use the whip finisher the same as directed going the same direction as your thread wraps. As for the 1/2 hitch, I don't use that knot except between the bunches of when spinning deer. I may on rare occassion use it at other times. However, again it should be with the same directional turn as your normal winds of thread.

Allan

I agree with Allen. All wraps should go the same way, generally away from you - up and over the hook, whether the head of the vice is facing right or left.

BTW, if you see Charlie Craven's videos (he is a left hander) he uses a Matarelli whip finisher.

Just use half hitches, On many smaller flies that's all i use with a bit of head cement.

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Originally Posted by Buddy Sanders

Spoof,


I'm right handed but I wrap my thread 'backwards' to what every book/manual recommends or shows. Always have.

I just use the whip finisher in the same direction I'm wrapping the thread. Works fine.

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Same with me- When I learned to tie, I didn't have anyone teach me there was supposedly a CORRECT direction to wrap. I can tell you that many thousands of fish didn't care which the hell way my thread was wrapped. I just whip finish in the same direction as my wraps. Never had an issue with it at all.

You're over-thinking this way too much.

I've tied at a few seminars where "instructors" have gotten quite agitated, insisting I'm "Doing it backwards!" even though my flies usually look better than most others.

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Originally Posted by Buddy Sanders

Spoof,

I have a Thompson whip finisher.

I'm right handed but I wrap my thread 'backwards' to what every book/manual recommends or shows. Always have.

I just use the whip finisher in the same direction I'm wrapping the thread. Works fine.

Don't get too caught up in the directions. The whip finish is just wrapping thread over itself to lock it in place. Every tool I've ever used for this will do it in either direction.

Buddy

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i have tried, many times... i cant figure out how to do the Thompson counter clockwise....
just to clarify with everything said in this thread: none of my flies have ever fallen apart due to poor thread wraps....
mainly wondering if reversing the thread would shorten there lifespan... and so far im guessing..... yes lol
spoof

Spoof,

Trying to 'reverse' the thread direction so you can use a tool that doesn't work properly for your tying isn't a good idea.

If you can't get the Thompson to work for you, for whatever reason, get a tool that does work for you.

Try bending/modifying the Thompson. If that doens't work, go to a fly shop and try a different one.

Make one that works for you. You can get stainless steel wire rod at any hobby shop, or stainless welding wire is available at any welders supply. A pair of pliers, a file, duct tape for a handle and some time is all it takes. (Practice making the shape with old coat hangers until you find the one that works).

The first whip finish tool I ever saw was simple loop of light dacron tied onto the end of a short piece of 1/8 inch dowel. You layed the loop onto the fly, wrapped the thread over it, place the tag end of the thread through the loop, and pulled it through. Works with either hand. If I was making one today, I'd use gel spun for the loop because it's slicker.

Buddy