A compact Pentax WP (Water Proof)Digi camera
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A compact Pentax WP (Water Proof)Digi camera
JOhnQuote:
Originally Posted by JohnScott
We have had this discussion before and I appreciated the honest way it was discussed... Coming to the conclusion you did here and linking things that do not agree with what you said is nothing like the way it was discussed previously. Many studies have shown the average bear "incident" where bear spray was used effectively was an incident where the spray should never have been used and was certainly not needed.
It takes time around bears to be comfortable enough to stand your ground and let the bear decide it would be best to leave.
I have seen bears sprayed twice and neither bear was saved. Had spray been the only option things would have gotten ugly both times.
I have seen bear spray accidents several times. I feel it is significantly less safe than a firearm.
Many situations do not allow the use of spray, including the most likely times you would need it (moving into the wind).
No one without an agenda has studied bear spray and decided humans were better off with spray than guns.
It is far more difficult to travel with spray than guns. You cannot take spray on any commercial airplane, for example. Having a can release in your vehicle while traveling is said to be most unpleasant, too.
Having spent huge amounts of time around bears and having multiple incidents of bear aggression directed toward me I can assure you I either carry a gun or nothing. Spray would never be something I would rely on. I know I can say I have literally seen thousands of bears. I have seen many very close...
art
Another additional point... If Stephen Herrero is cited (or co-author in the case of these) you can pretty much discount the entire thing... He has marginalized himself and most consider him a pretender. I have copies of his first "Bear Attacks" and the second... The first is ridiculous on many extremely basic points and his credibility took a major hit from it. His corrections are not a lot better.
Quoted from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife release.
Fact Sheet No. 8
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
"Law enforcement agents for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service have experience that supports this reality --
based on their investigations of human-bear encounters since 1992, persons encountering grizzlies and
defending themselves with firearms suffer injury about 50% of the time. During the same period, persons
defending themselves with pepper spray escaped injury most of the time, and those that were injured
experienced shorter duration attacks and less severe injuries."
This is from one of the linked items.
Art -
Yes, we have had several friendly and interesting discussions, both on the BB and by PM. Since the last such exchange, I happened to do some" research" for another discussion a month or two ago and ran across the linked articles. I think a reasonable conclusion is what I stated earlier - to the effect that the average person is safer carrying bear spray than a firearm. If others, with or without an agenda, come to some other conclusion, that is for them to say.
I have a great deal of respect for your experience in these matters in Alaska. You are one of the interesting persons I had in mind when I posted earlier. I much enjoy your stories and the telling, and I have full confidence in the veracity of those anecdotes.
Having said that, your experience, both as the individual you are and in the environment where you have your experiences, is so far beyond beyond that of the average person, that I don't see how to apply what you can accomplish to the average person who is down here in the lower 48 wandering around where bears might be.
I went looking for the Canadian Government study again, and still haven't found it. But I did run across this one from Marco's favorite place.
http://gf.state.wy.us/services/news/...8/090908_4.asp
I will look further for the Canadian study. If I find it, I'll post a link for anyone who is interested in following, and / or participating in, this ongoing discussion.
John
P.S. I personally don't think the U.S. Fish and Wildlife folks have an agenda. I also think the people who put together the positions expressed by both the U.S. Fish and Wildlife and the Wyoming Game and Fish Dept. are competent and honest folks.
A Swiss Army Knife which I've yet to use.
A tube of glucose tablets because I am diabetic.
A small New Testament Bible.
Pentax Optio digital camera.
Waterproof matches and a butane lighter.
Oh yeah, haven't had the chance yet, but this spring, I'll be adding the Pentax Optio WS80 I got around Thanksgiving. :)
Digital camera, wet wipes, and a flask of Bakers bourbon...you know...for snakebite ;)
Ken
When hiking or fishing in bear country you are advised to carry pepper spray and wear little bells that make noise so you never surprise a bear. While black bear tend to be docile grizzly bear are not.
If you come across some bear scat you can tell the difference between grizzly and black fairly easily. Black bear scat contains remnants of berries. Grizzly bear scat smells like pepper spray and contains little bells.
:D