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Think on this:- The impetus applied to the moving line by the rod under load in either the forward or back cast Must dissapate before the line slows then stops.
Could it be considered that it is the impetus that allows the fly line to load the rod again after the stop??
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I'm a much better Fly fisher when talking fishing, than when I'm Actually Fly fishing!
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LOL, Hans, So long as no one dares call THE MAN on this,He does have a lot of truth in that 1 Lil sentance.......
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"I've often wondered why it is that so many anglers spend so much money on,and pay so much attention to.the details on the wrong end of the fly line.If they took as much care in selecting or tying their flies as they did in the selection of the reel and rod,They might be able to gain the real extra edge that makes it possible to fool a fish that has,in fact,seen it all before" A.K.Best
"Wish ya great fishing"
Bill
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The reason I often agree with the idea that you should or perhaps can, start your opposing draw (cast if youd perfer) befor the line is stright is due to the idea that the leader is considered part of the line. Should you be looking back at your line presentation on the reverse, waiting for the optimum instant to begin your forward draw, there is a window of 'personal best time' to choose from. For many of us that moment is just befor the leader is fully extended and the fly is about to reverse and right itself. That moment is best for us due to the reaction time and speed with which we apply power. This will differ for each person and each line length, power or taaper of the rod, weight and air resistance of the fly and the distance and supposed purpose to presentation. You simply cannot discount personal judgement and experience. As I see it there are no absolute correct answers or incorrect for that matter. Personaly I feel adept enough with a fly rod, that if put to the test using the exact text of most persumed absoulute answers, I could put the lie to fully 95% of them. No brag, just the experience of many years of manipulating a fly rod. Why Ill be so bold as to publicly admit, Ive hooked fish beyound 60 feet away just because I could. My point to all this is that, all answers should be considered in the light of situational bias. To answer your original question of should your line be fully extended befor you comence your forward stroke, without more information as to your personal style Id have to say, perhaps.
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Captn. Paul Darby
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Ray,
I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.
However, would you agree that a rod that is straight is a rod with no load on it? If we can't agree on that then we are miles apart and need to define our terms.
As I make my backcast, and after completing the power portion of the stroke, and while the line is unrolling behind me, my rod is straight and therefore without load on it. Further during this interval I have relaxed my grip on the rod making it impossable for it to carry a load. (A rod is nothing more than a flexable cantilevered beam and for such a structural item to carry a load it must be fixed at one end.) Add to that, that I am letting the rod drift to the rear as the line unrolls to increase my forward stroke and there is no possibility of the rod loading during this period. The line is already traveling to the rear with what ever velocity was imparted to it during the power stroke and I am not going to add to it at this point by drifting the rod rearward.
As to the issue of the line falling close to the water on the backcast -Yes, it does, and yes, that is the intended and proper position for it when making a very long cast. For maximum efficiency the backcast and the forward cast should be in the same plane. It is called good tracking. Forcing the line to change direction between the back and forward casts wastes energy and cuts distance.
As far as my cast going to hell, I can on a good day beat 90 ft with a 5 wt and in excess of a 100 with the 8 wt and heavier rods.
[This message has been edited by Jim Cramer (edited 14 July 2005).]
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IMO, and i am certainly no expert, youre line is straight while your leader may or may not be depending on the situation you find yourself in at the time.
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Everyone dies. Only the lucky ever truly Live. Take your time.
Chris-Bishop, CA, USA
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Interesting topic, confusing but interesting http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bb/smile.gif. The forward cast should begin just prior to the fly line straightening completely out, as previously mentioned. At which point to begin the forward casts is dependent upon the amount of line that one has out. This is the part that incorporates that feel that has been previously mentioned and also comes from better understanding your individual casting mechanics. If one hears that loud snapping sound; deduce that you began the forward cast to early and/or also over powered the casting stroke in comparison to the prior one. The sound is actually that of the same physics applied that comes from the cracking of a Bull Whip. By overpowering the rod and drastically increasing the speed on the fly, it will accelerate the end of the line to a point faster than that of the sound barrier and the noise is the culmination of the low pressure created just behind the fly. As the pressure closes back to normal it creates that snapping sound; not a good thing to be doing with little helpless fishing flies http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bb/smile.gif.
Once the fly rod has come to an abrupt stop there is no longer any energy stored in it. The reason for the abrupt stop, of the fly rod (in the 10:00 or 2:00 positions), is to load kinetic energy into the fly line and it is this energy that holds the line aloft while unwinding the remainder of it. The tighter the loop, the more consolidated this energy is and this is what allows one to deliver distance casts. If the line is allowed to completely straighten, all of the energy is displaced from the fly line and it will drop below your casting plane, many flies can be lost this way. The kinetic energy is strongest, in the fly line, at the point that it is first introduced at the tip of your rod. As the loop travels the distance of the fly line, energy is displaced which in turn allows you to reintroduce more controlled energy for changing directions on your casting plane. Many casting and presentation techniques require the manipulation of this kinetic energy in order properly present the fly in more technical applications.
The best advise that I can offer is to stand sideways and practice casting across shoulder too shoulder, this will allow you to observe the forward and back casts while not sacrificing any of the proper mechanics. Remind yourself to feel the different responses through the rod but focus more on the size of the loops. If everything is equal in your forward and back casts, the loops should be equal in size and the plane should be level. If the loops are not equal try adjusting the point when you begin the next casting stroke. Do this until both strokes have loops that are no larger than 2.5?. It is very important that the strokes are stopped abruptly at the 10:00 and 2:00 positions in order to maintain a level plane and keep everything equal; also make sure that the casting stroke speeds are equal as well.
Don?t get in the habit of looking at your back casts but use it as a bench mark for your timing and occasionally look back at it. The instrument panel, for measuring proper and equal casting strokes, can best be observed by utilizing the loops that you create as measuring devices that should always be attended to. Focus on them above everything else and always keep them in your peripheral vision at minimum. The size of the loops going back should be a mirror of the ones coming forward, if they are not then there is something wrong in the stroke timing, rod positioning or opposing stroke speeds . There are exceptions to this rule but that is for other casts and presentation techniques.
Best of luck and I hope this helps some?
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Best Regards