You having no respect for me bothers me how?
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You having no respect for me bothers me how?
...."Gramps", you and your kind totally disgust me. Fishing is not a sport. Calling it a sport or treating it like a sport DEGRADES it. You belittle and degrade the fish by your cruelty towards them. It is an honorable thing to use them as food. But to use them as a sport is disgusting. Then you pump up your ego by pretending you are other than an insignificant blowhard. What an insignificant joke you are.
Pete, you got me to thinking....I once thought C&R was the only way to go but now it occurs to me that C&R kills more trout (or any species of fish sought) than killing the amount one would eat since limits have become so small. Is that your point? Because if it is I see it.
I mean a long day of C&R may result in say 100 trout (or other lesser species) being handled, traumatized or however you would call it whereas killing two or even one in some cases results in about 59 less deaths. Something to think about...my problem is I don't like trout as something to eat, only catching them....but...how many do I need to C&R before I've proved that I can do it....again, and again, ad infinitum...is that the right word? Thanks Pete, a provacative set of reasonings that reached me on a long since unrevisited level. I'm going to continue catch and release of course, but I may cut my hooks off at the bend so I don't stick 'em, just raise 'em...I know one thing, if I liked trout, I'd have eaten thousands of them by now !
Cheers,
MontanaMoose
Jim,
In reply to all of your points I have come up with an approach that works for me. First is that I do not generally take fish. I'm mostly a C&R guy because I like fish more alive than dead. Its great to touch one and then let it swim away, and to be able to be that close to something natural. This basically begs the question of when it is proper to keep or not.
Of the few times I do keep it is generally because I like the taste of fresh fish fed on real protein, not fish pellets. The farm raised fish often taste muddy for lack of a better description. So If I do take fish its usually in Maine on this place I know that has mostly fish that have wintered over if they are of a legal size. And this is only a few each year.
Another point you brought up is that you eat only farm raised Salmon. I have chosen to eat only wild Salmon. This is based on a long study that TU did about the effects of farm raised Salmon on the wild Salmon population. Eating only wild Salmon was their recommendation. You might want to look at their site to see if you can find that info. Its too involved for me to begin to get into on a post.
I think in the end, the real answer to the question is that if we all try to protect the fish we like to catch, be it by stocking, C&R, cleaning the shore lines and keeping them free of contaminants, educating others on how to treat the gifts of the river etc. then we will accomplish what we hope to accomplish. Cleaner waters, more fish in better habitat and fewer fish left lying on the banks or in trash cans on the highway.
One of the saddest fish related sites I've seen was a trash can on the side of the Cape Cod Canal filled with Striped bass, all too short to have been kept. First they never should have left the water, second if they were kept they should have been eaten. This served as a reminder to me of all we have to do.
jed
...well, this post went downhill in a hurry...
except for that last post, well said, Jed.
Now, Boys! Don't you suppose Gramps made that comment tongue-in-cheek? As I was reading Jims post, one of my first thoughts was, "OMG! What would Jim think of some of the old red necks in SMo stomping on the heads of trouts, and ripping out the hooks, only to kick the fish back into the water again?!?" :shock:
:roll: :roll: :roll:
Betty,
Everyone knows that you don't have to stomp down on the heads of fish to get them to hold still while you remove a hook. That thing went out with the fins on the back of cars.
Thats what cleats are for, so we can gently stand on the fish and pin that puppy in place. :shock:
jed
Just to clarify, my eye rolling wasn't for betty (or jed)!
One of the more disgusting sights (other than one of Gramps posts) is being downriver from any park on the Deschutes River. The volumes of dead, "released" fish floating by is not an enjoyable sight. Think about it. Fishing is the one sport where torture is allowed. Now some cultures allow cock fighting, dog fighting, bull fighting, or partial birth abortion; but most societies consider these morally objectionable. Fishing for "sport" is allowed.
Now pest species are allowed to be killed like mosquitos, ticks, rats, coyotes, but even these are often illegal if you simply torture them instead of making a humane kill. But fish don't get the same luck. Maybe because the state makes money off of it. Most states don't allow gambling, unless they run it and profit from it.
Now if your waters are too poluted to eat the fish, you don't have to fish. You could simply go hiking or golfing. Golf balls don't feel the torture.
I like fishing, but I eat what I catch. I like hunting, but unless I am ridding society of pests, I eat what I kill.
Hey Jed,
Thanks for the note back - all good points - even the one about "cleats" :)
Excellent point about farm raised versus wild run...and you're absolutely right about the effects of salmon farms on the wild population and I'll look for wild caught now when I want to eat fish.
I really didn't intend this post to become one about whether or not keeping fish is right or wrong - I agree that we all need to have an approach that works for us. Back when I was younger I used to catch and eat fish every once in a while, but that changed when I realized that the waters I fished in didn't have any naturally producing fish stock.
Going back and reading my earlier post - I guess it's easy to see how it might have come off as an indictment against keeping fish. Let me emphasize that I wasn't trying to pass judgement - only express my preference for C&R in the waters I fish, the reason I do so, and most importantly the importance of being careful with the fish we return.
As I said before - I C&R because it's important for me to do what I can to preserve the fishery I call home. And I try to do so being as careful as I can with those fish, and that's what I was hoping to communicate to others. If you're not going to keep the fish - then it doesn't take any more effort to pinch down the barb of your hook, be gentle when handling it and let them revive a little in the net pointed upstream before turning them loose.
And we definitely agree that preserving our fishery is more than C&R or not - it's so much more than that if our ultimate goal is to have "cleaner waters, more fish in habitat and fewer fish lying on the banks or in trash cans". It comes back to having respect for our waters and the fish within and doing everything we can to improve it.
Thanks for the discussion - hopefully we can share a stream sometime - it would be an honor.
Jim