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Eric,
No need to apologize. This past April I went on a three day trip with one of the Jersey TU chapters. Don B. guided that trip. The chapter runs the trip every year specifically to teach guys how to nymph.
Don's got a lot of great ideas about nymphing as well as wet fly fishing and I really learned a lot on that trip. I even caught a few fish on dry flies. He is definitely not a wet fly purist. It's always risky quoting people, but I believe he told me that a #20 flashback PT was one of his standards on Spring Creek in and around Bellefonte.
We talked about Ray Bergman and wet fly fishing a bit, but he wasn't pushing it, though I know it's one of his passions.
BTW, don't blame anyone else for any bizzare ideas you might hear from me. I have a tendency to take an idea and run with it over the edge. Oh well. Best!
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Ursus,
That makes a lot of sense to me -- maybe the secret behind the wolly bugger -- a fly that doesn't really look like anything but has a lot of movement. I'm a real believer in woolly buggers.
I also have to throw out another idea that I think is important. I read somewhere that the comparadun is an effective dry fly because it has a low profile in the water and therefore appears vulnerable (meaning not about to fly off, I guess).
All predators respond to vulnerability. Big predators (like big cats and wolves and such) don't want to take on prey that will fight back -- so they choose the young, old, and/or sick if they can. If a predator is injured while subdueing prey, it becomes a less effective hunter and therefore less able to survive. Of course, the word "want" is misleading, it's really just a preference shaped by genetic history.
In the trout's case, a vulnerable insect is not as likely to escape, so the expenditure of energy chasing the insect is more likely to be rewarded. So I think part of what makes a fly effective is the extent to which it gives the appearance of vulnerability.
The idea that trout instinctively trade off the effort required to take an insect with the calories the insect provides is another idea I got from reading Tom Rosenbauer. In other words, they'll go a long ways for a stonefly nymph, but maybe just a few inches for a midge pupa.
[This message has been edited by BigFlatBrook (edited 06 November 2005).]
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Fish in natural conditions will hit anything without too much hesitation. Generally speaking, competition results in survival for those who eat first and ask questions later. For these fish, the most effective patterns are bold attractors (or "searching patterns" in fly fish speak).
At the other extreme, are trout, especially brown trout, in blue ribbon, C&R fly fishing areas. Once they've been caught a handful of times, even fish start to wonder about that "attractive food item". I've heard of some browns actually starving to death because they're too traumatized to eat but the ones that survive generally tend to do so by avoiding "typical fly fisher fare". This is not natural fish behavior. These fish have been domesticated/shell shocked. Any "knowledge and wisdom" concerning these fish is as artificial as a gold fish bowl.
There are two effective strategies to deal with these fish. One is to go with small flys or fish at night. The other is to simply use something different that they have not seen. Since I don't like small flys for many reasons, and I don't like to fish at night, I like to show them something different every time I'm out fishing the same location for the same fish. It works like a charm, even if I just change colours.
Between these extremes, ideas like caloric tradeoffs, etc. may be worthwhile.
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If I had a two swing leaf fly boxes with clips to hold flies and filled one with fly patterns and the other with theories on fly patterns; which would fill up first?
I'd bet on the latter...
...it sure keeps fly fishing interesting http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bb/wink.gif.
I have a friend who swears that NO trout takes ANY dry fly for a natural; but instead for a cripple. So I guess I'm a CCCCC: A Catcher of Creek Critters who Crave Cripples.
In any case despite the theories that abound; I advocate the "Scratch the Hatch" or Presentationalist theory on all flies. How else can you explain the evidence presented in a previous thread about flies that never worked for us? Some fly fishers have great success with certain patterns and others can't buy a fish on one?
...anybody want to buy some Prince Nymphs?
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It does make it interesting. But ... Prince nymphs don't work for you?
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BFB:
About the only way I think I might catch a trout on a Prince Nymph is if I knock one unconscious with one of my bead-head versions http://www.flyanglersonline.com/bb/smile.gif.
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eaustin;
I look at it this way. Them big browns and bows sure did like to hit the red and white and orange with black spot daredevils that I used to throw. They also would hammer many different colors of Panther Martins for me too. One year I used a fl orange bladed red bodied panther martin to get me a rather tasty brown out of the Bow in Montana. That WAS about 1984, but I'll bet many of them would still work.
Which hatch was I matching? I think I was probably triggering their desire for a big bite of minnow. I am thinking that most of the wets tied in a size six would probably cause the same trigger to fire. Ooooh, big minnow, injured, looks tasty, WHAM! I would think it would even do a better job at matching the minnow hatch than wolly buggers do.
Just my thoughts.
Don
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Don, you might just have touched on my inherent bias. I never caught a darned thing on those Daredevils.
Eric
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Hi Eric!
Not counting streamers, the largest fly I tie for my area is a size 12. And, as a fly tier, why not match the hatch for the area your fishing. When I tie flis for my local streams, I always approach it with matching the insects that inhabit those streams. It just makes sense to me. On the other hand, one of my most effective dry attractors is a #14 Hair Wing Royal Trude. [url=http://www.fishingwithflies.com/Hare-wingRoyalTrude.htm:d2f7d]http://www.fishingwithflies.com/Hare-wingRoyalTrude.htm[/url:d2f7d]
Capn' Bob
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Eric;
I spent many more days NOT catching anything with those daredevils than catching with them. I remember one trip when I had either three different three pound rainbows, or the same one three times, follow my stinking lure all the way to the bank and then swim away slowly after I let it drop to the bottom. Man was THAT frustrating. (I estimate it at 3 pounds, cause I caught a fish that looked the same in the next pool on that same daredevil.)
Don
Since taking up flyfishing, I have almost never been skunked. With spin fishing, I got skunked more than not.