Thanks, Buddy...years ago I tried RainX ...only once...it didn't work....and I never understood why...or why some folks have kept bringing it up as a recommendation.
Printable View
Thanks, Buddy...years ago I tried RainX ...only once...it didn't work....and I never understood why...or why some folks have kept bringing it up as a recommendation.
call me old fashioned, but I've never had a problem with good old fashioned mucilin. works great & one little bin lasts forever.
Sometimes there is confusion over Silica Gel which is a desiccant (hydroPHILIC - absorbs water) and hydroPHOBIC Fumed Silica which replies water. Top Ride and Shimazaki Dry Shake are combination products that contain both and the silica gel absorbs the water and the fumed silica coats the fly to repel water.
Pure Silica Gel products should be brushed off the fly because they will attract water. Most of the time, the products containing silica gel are formulated with large crystals that will not stay on the fly. I use the packets of Silica Gel that come with new shoes to dry my flies - they contain round spheres of silica gel like the drying spheres from Cortland line.
Frogs Fanny is fumed silica that has been coated to be water repellant. Fumed silica alone is hydroPHILIC and it is coated with siloxane, or silicon oil which contains hydroPHOBIC side chains that repel water.
RainX is not wax. The water repellancy of RainX is the same chemistry that makes FF water repellant. RainX is a combination of alcohol as a carrier and polysiloxanes, and organosilanes as the coating material. Polysiloxanes are hydrophobic (water repelling) and has the same siloxane chemistry and water repellant side chains as Frogs Fanny. You can use RainX on your flies.
RainX does make an automotive wax called RainX Fast Wax that can be the cause of the confusion.
Buddy's idea of using Silicone Water Guard is a great idea. It should work.
Here are the references and quotes from the pertinent articles:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/5919298.html
"An aqueous suspension of fumed silica is contacted with an organosilicon compound in the presence of a catalytic amount of an acid to effect hydrophobing of the fumed silica."
http://www.epinions.com/review/Turtl...nt_70136204932
"RainX consists of ethanol (1-10%), isopropanol (75-95%), polysiloxanes, and organosilanes. An organosilane molecule has two ends -- the "silane" end electrically bonds to surfaces like glass."
http://raysands.wordpress.com/2008/0...rainx-residue/
"RainX is silicone based"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicone#Coatings
"More precisely called polymerized siloxanes or polysiloxanes, silicones are mixed inorganic-organic polymers with the chemical formula [R2SiO]n, where R is an organic group such as methyl, ethyl, or phenyl. These materials consist of an inorganic silicon-oxygen backbone (?-Si-O-Si-O-Si-O-?) with organic side groups attached to the silicon atoms, which are four-coordinate.
In some cases organic side groups can be used to link two or more of these -Si-O- backbones together. By varying the -Si-O- chain lengths, side groups, and crosslinking, silicones can be synthesized with a wide variety of properties and compositions. They can vary in consistency from liquid to gel to rubber to hard plastic. The most common siloxane is linear polydimethylsiloxane (PDMS), a silicone oil.
Silicone films can be applied to silica-based substrates like glass to form a covalently bonded hydrophobic coating."
http://ppgamercoatus.ppgpmc.com/psx/...ysiloxanes.pdf
"Polysiloxanes are generally recognized as the newest generic class of high performance protective coating and include coating types based on inorganic siloxane and organic-inorganic siloxane hybrids."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siloxane
"These compounds can be viewed as a hybrid of both organic and inorganic compounds. The organic side chains confer hydrophobic properties while the -Si-O-Si-O- backbone is purely inorganic."
Silver,
You certainly know more about chemistry than I do. I'll take your word for what 'Rain-X' is chemically. But it 'works' like a wax. You put it on, it cures, and you polish off the residue, leaving behind the coating that fills the pores in the glass, making it slick so that the water will run off. They even tell you to use water on it if you are having trouble removing the left over residue. It is made for glass, and if you don't get that residue off, it doesn't work there either.
No offense intended, you obviously have some expertise with this type of thing, but folks need to know this:
Rain-X does not work as a fly floatant, regardless of the chemicals it contains. I've tested it on several different types of floating flies, and it didn't work as well, or even close to as well, as 'untreated' flies.
For those confused by all this, please just test it yourself if you are wondering about it. I wanted to use it, I'm cheap and it was an easy substitute for the 'fly shop' stuff..'if' it worked. But, I'm not about to put something on my flies, especially spun deer hair bugs that take quite a bit of time to tie, without being 'sure'.
Here's what I did to 'test' it:
I tied some identical flies (I did this with three types of dry flies, a stimulator, an adams, and an elk hair caddis, and two types of spun deer hair bass bugs, a popper and a frog type).
I broke the flies into three groups. Each 'group' held three each of each fly. An untreated control, one set with Silicone Water Guard, and one set with 'Rain-X'. I treated the flies by emersing them in the liquid and then setting them on paper towels to dry. I let them dry for three days.
I put the flies on the surface film of a bowl of distilled water. Everytime I walked past the bowl, I pushed each of the flies under water. (If you don't 'wet' them, the test isn't accurate since your flies do get wet while you fish them-just about everytime you pick them up to cast and even some times when you cast them back out)
NONE of the flies treated with Rain-X floated for more than a few hours. The standard trout flies, especially the Adams, sank after only a couple of 'wettings'. The untreated flies eventually sank, the stimulator lasted the longest, several days in fact (but it did sink into the surface film quickly and it was obvious that the bouyancy of the hair wing was keeping it afloat). The permanently waterproofed flies treated with Silicone Water Guard NEVER sank.
The results with the bass bugs was even more pronounced. The Rain-X treated bugs sank after only one 'wetting', while the untreated bugs took hours to sink. The bugs treated with Silicone Water Guard stayed afloat until the water in the bowl evaporated (I did the bass bugs last, so I wanted t osee how long they would float...).
So, regardless of what it is, it is not a fly floatant and I strongly recommend that no one use it as such.
Again, I advise all who doubt this to just do the test yourself. I'ts pretty easy to do.
I'm really cheap about stuff like this. If Rain-X worked, I'd use it. But it doesn't.
Buddy
Thanks for your test Buddy. The Silicone Waterguard is better for flies.
A Montana guide recommended "Albolene" and I have been using it for years. Keep it in a 35mm film canister. But I spray my dry flies with Scotchguard after I get them tied and put away and use the Albolene for re-dressing while fishing. Currently tying for a month long trip this summer in Montana & Idaho. (Wife will be in Wash DC for the month).
Mike
Definitely an interesting topic. I prefer Loon Aquel and apply this to the fly when it is dry (also mostly to dry flies not to confuse the concept...). I use the shake drier by Loon that is the beads. For CDC it defeats the purpose to use anything but a Frog's Fanny or other type of dry fumed silica. If you use the paste/goo it ruins the micro barbs in the CDC by matting them down. So I guess in a way I use all of those types discussed but for different purposes. Now if they only made a paste/gel that didn't want to explode out of the bottle when it gets hot....
I didn't see where anybody else mentioned this: it helps to grease your leader as well as the fly. Obviously, the powdered stuff won't work on monofilament.
Dry Magic is gel that is formulated to work on CDC. I was very skeptical myself because all other gels and pastes ruin the CDC. But Tiemco's Dry Magic does work. It just disappears into the fibers and waterproofs them. I then add the FF material.
Dry magic is expensive and I use it only on CDC. I use Aquel for my other dry flies like you do.
There is another fly floatant that I use that I can get only at Blue Ribbon flies at the counter. It is in a yellow squeeze tube and called Hydrophobe. It works great on fly bodies but it is a thicker paste/gel that tend to clump up hair and tail fibers. It is the longest lasting paste/gel floatant I have found. Not many folks know about Hydrophobe because BRF is the only place I have found it. I was turned onto Hydrophobe by a friend who was catching fish after fish and not retreating his flies. I had to retreat my fly after every fish. So I asked him what floatant he used and it was Hydrophobe.
If you are ever in Blue Ribbon in West Yellowstone, get a tube. You will not be disappointed other than at the cost of the small tube.
"The only floatant that I've found acceptable has been a product called Hydrophobe which is made in France and difficult to find in any fly shops."
http://www.iffa.org.uk/floatant.htm
"Only one company, Hydrophobe, makes a fly floatant in a container that will be the envy of any ultralight backpacker (it's available from Blue Ribbon Flies in West Yellowstone, MT)"
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-...fisherman.html
"I bought some stuff called HYDROPHOBE last year in MT -Blue Ribbon Flies I think. It comes in a tiny yellow tube - about two inches long. It's a grease type floatant. My buddies swear it's far superior than any other type of grease floatant. It's a much thicker gel. It does work well for me. "
http://www.utahonthefly.com/forums//...d.php?p=189449
When I was a kid(I'm 48 now) I used a product that came in a hour glass shapped small jar. The lid had a cork seal. You just put the fly in screw the lid on turned upside down than right side up. For the life of me I have no idea what that stuff was nor have I seen it since I was a kid. Anyone know what it was? It worked good for me!