What can I possibly say in response to that extensive explanation? Okay :lol: /
Deezel
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What can I possibly say in response to that extensive explanation? Okay :lol: /
Deezel
Let me turn to my copy of Harry Darbee's book CATSKILL FLYTIER.
I quote:
The Old English word "dunn" means dust-colored. The color dun as we use it in flytying, can come in varying shades of smoky cream, pale blue, light blue dun, smoky blue, honey dun, iron blue dun, bronze dun, and rusty near-black. Most of these color names originated with English fishing writers and have been adopted in this country with varying degrees of understanding or agreement.
Now I suppose all of you reading this are as confused as am I and as was Mr. Darbee.
What colors make dun? I am sure there are many opinions on this but I assure you it is black and white.
To start with the blue dun color gene is
"Bb" which is dominant recessive. To simply explain (if possible) this means a breeder can not breed a nice colored blue dun hen to the perfect colored blue dun rooster. You can breed them but the results will be almost no blue dun roosters as they will come all colors, spangles, etc. You must come through the back door so to speak. Breed a black x white mating and be lucky or smart enough to select the gene carrier rooster to breed back over the "pure Blue dun" hens. This cross is called a "sport" and some other terms.
Now after working very hard for over 10 years to get the beautiful dark blue dun center with the black laced edge like I personally saw when visiting the Darbee flock at Frank Kitsners place in Rosco NY where O was fortunate to see this color in a old hen. I assure you it is almost impossible to duplicate the color in the rooster. I recognized the color as my blue dun yards have the same color in my hens. Of course I also have dun hens of different shades including beautiful chocolate duns as many of you know from buying them as JV hens.
I get all the colors listed above and have some degree of being able to duplicate it. I assure you it is a very low %. Of course I am one of the few breeders that only produces natural colored hackle.
The color dun in a chicken feather is a diluted, as opposed to solid color. It might be a combination of red and black pigments on a white feather. Actually there are only these two pigments on the white feather in any of our colors. There can be an overcast of either silver or gold which are not considered pigments by poultry geneticist. If you wonder about greens and purples, these are iridescent sheens found in black feathers.
Lets take the Honey dun. It would get its color from granules of black and red on the white background with an overcast of gold.
It sounds simple when we attach names to what we have or are trying to do. It really is not because there are a lot of other things involved.
So I suggest for the tier wanting a dun color, try and match your color with the insect you are trying to replicate. Lots of luck. What name you call it is really unimportant I feel as long as you & I can get on the same page if you are buying from me.
I assure you there are very few duns in the roosters produced each year that I would call "a perfect blue dun color" Personally I let the fish judge my choice of color in my fishing flies.
As all of you may realize by now the blue dun is one of my favorites and I spend more time breeding them than any of the other colors. I enjoy the mystery involved.
Colors in bird feathers is much different than computer dot matrix painting.
Hope this may provide some info and not confuse everyone. The above is only my feelings and thoughts. I may be wrong. I was once. :D
Denny
I would say this was/is one hellofa question :!:Quote:
Originally Posted by Deezel
Great response Denny,
Let me ask a few questions.
1. Are you able to produce more Cree Capes than "Pure Blue Dun" ?
2. What is your definition of honey dun?
3. Do you have any #1 Barred Choclate Dun capes?
Thanks,
Jim
WOW...thanks Denny very informative...great thread
Thanks Jim,
For colors I might have on hand, please contact me direct through my personal e-mail. Once I get a question about "on hand hackle" I print it out and take the printout to inventory and answer back as soon as I can.
Because I now know how to produce the Crees I can get better results with them than the Pure Blue duns.
It depends on what each of us is calling a Pure Blue dun? 100 tiers will give us at least 120 different answers. I suspect you are refering to what I call the old Darby color. Medium to dark blue/grey w/black laced edges. I produce a lot of them in the hen. Very few in the rooster and most that I do produce I would prefer the smaller hackle to not be so dark. It is natural in a male BD to have a almost pure black in the hackles, size 20 and smaller. I am working on it but is a tough one. After 10 years of playing with the duns I am on track but not as good as I want. I do get very few per year and they are snapped up quickly.
My definition of Honey dun is: There are different shades of this one but the center of each hackle is from a light chocolate dun to the darker dun. The barbs will be also different shades from a "close to" honey color and sometimes a more golden honey color. Not a bad photo of one on my Specials page in a full skin. (is sold) Because I do not breed for numbers I do have several different shades of the duns.
I might suggest checking out my web site for different colors. We have done our color photos differently than others so a tier can see the real hackle color from below on the "close view"
Denny
Deezel, RW here
I have all three capes from Denny, light, medium and dark and they all conform to what I've always pictured as blue dun. This occurs more when they are actually tied on the fly, not necessarily looking at the cape itself when the feathers are all laying on top of each other. I have never been disatisfied with any of the feathers I've gotten from Denny and when they are tied into the flies I tie, I know I am looking at dun hackle. I always trust Denny's selection of Dun hackle and I'm never disappointed. I've never seen better hackle on completed flies in any fly shop. What more can you ask for?
Later, RW
P.S. Frank Mele, in his book "Small In The Eye of a River (circa early 70's) wrote of his luv affair with blue dun capes and his extensive collection of dun necks in one of the chapters entitled "Blue Dun." He wrote of them as having "magical qualities" and is one of the great mood pieces I've ever read on the subject of fly tying and feathers.
RW
Hi Denny,
Appreciate your responses and the insightful descriptions.
Deezel