Re: Fly Rod Review: Orvis Helios
Quote:
Originally Posted by BSwan
Imagine the business dilemna a rod manufacturer would be in if it developed a rod so "perfect" that you'd never have to buy another one!
Bob
It's not much of a dilemma, because you would have to buy one for every situation, and their sales would go on forever. You need a rod for:
Lightwieght panfish situations...
Small streams...
Small streams with close canopy...
Medium streams for medium fish...
Medium streams for large fish...
Medium streams for large fish with close canopy overhead and non-stop wind in your face in high humidity conditions on overcast days with leaves in the water...
Large rivers requiring 70' casts to finicky trout using #32 flies on blustery day with the wind in your face and your wife screaming from the bank that she's cold, tired and ready to call the lawyer...
and on, and on, and on....
After all, you have to have a full quiver, not just one arrow! :lol:
Joe
Re: Fly Rod Review: Orvis Helios
How much are you willing to pay to lose 1/2 oz on a rod?
It's cheaper to exercise.
Re: Fly Rod Review: Orvis Helios
It is obvious, to me anyway, that the price of fly rods and; "Why manufactures charge now, what they do for them", is the same as the "Where does a 300 pound canary sleep?"......."Anywhere, it darn well WANTS TO,that's where!"
Because the "magical sales term", here is "FLY FISHERMAN" and everyone knows that; "If it's overly expensive, that's ALL that matters to the average fly fisherman, as far as justifying outrageous prices for ANY of our gear!
Merely look at the SUPER magical word.............. "BAMBOO"! Any junk/antique dealer, who can spell the word "fish", knows; if they find a piece of bamboo, fishing rod, even if it's not even good enough for a tomato steak, they can tack an outrageous price on it and SOME "FLYFISHERMAN'", WILL come along and pay their asking price for it!
Ask any worm can jockey, or spinner tosser, "Have you ever, even, TRIED fly fishing?" and 9 times to 10, they're going to answer you............... "Oh, yeah, ONCE! UNTIL, I found out HOW EXPENSIVE it is/was, to even get started!!"
Truthfully........... When was the last time, any one of us has picked up a copy of say; "Bucket Mouth Magazine" and seen even ONE advertisement for; "Spin Fishing For Big Bass In Topega"!!?? Or, "Helicopter Fishing In New Zealand, For Record Browns"!?.............. using Mepp Spinners and Texas Rigged, plastic worms??
"WE" are too elitist to "fish with bobbers", so we call tjem, "Strike Indicators". We fish with "artificial copies" of "natural baits", so we never use "plastic worms", we only use "San Juan Worms", made from $3.00 pipe cleaners. And, we justify the "not using a Roland Martin Plastic Worm", by wrapping plastic Larva Lace around a simple hook shank and give it a name that's only spoken of it in low, hushed, Latin terms!?!!
The new Helios fly rods sell for as much money as they do..................... because they CAN and every one knows, that the price will be met!!
BOTH, the Helios and a TFO, can and will, quite easily throw 30 to 35 feet of line with ease and accuracy. Unless, salt sight fishing, perhaps........ but, truthfully, how many trout or bass did you take, last season that required you to cast 80 to 90 feet, on each and every cast!?
Re: Fly Rod Review: Orvis Helios
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gramps
How much are you willing to pay to lose 1/2 oz on a rod?
It's cheaper to exercise.
Pete,
I think another good questin is how much difference does the extra 1/2oz make?
If the answer was that there was a huge difference and I would notice the 1/2oz and it would make me a far better fisherman, then the price difference would be justified.
I somehow doubt if a rod that is 1/2 oz lighter is going to make me a better fisherman.
Time on the water, practice and more time on the water and more practice are what's going to make a better fisherman.
I wish it were so easy that I could drop $800 at my local fly shop and be a better fisherman, but like anything else that is worth doing, it takes a lot of time and effort.
The good news about all of this is I cannot think of many things I'd rather spend time practicing than fishing (yes, there's always that but it is still fun to fish without a partner :D )
Jeff
Re: Fly Rod Review: Orvis Helios
It looks like it's worth it if you want an Orvis rod and you figure you'll live longer than 25 years.
You saw it right here and now folks; what a Lifetime Warranty really costs you!
Considering the FORMALLY top of the line, not much heavier Zero gravity is about $100 less with a 25 year warranty; I figure most of the $100 additional for the Helios covers the additional warranty over 25 years.
If Orvis really wanted to make money they should ONLY sell the Helios to fishermen over the age of 60!
As far as whether it's worth it...
...it's worth it to those that want it and the SKY is the limit for those that have it!
Re: Fly Rod Review: Orvis Helios
Quote:
Originally Posted by flybinder
... BOTH, the Helios and a TFO, can and will, quite easily throw 30 to 35 feet of line with ease and accuracy. Unless, salt sight fishing, perhaps........ but, truthfully, how many trout or bass did you take, last season that required you to cast 80 to 90 feet, on each and every cast!?
I don 't entirely disagree, but, as I've said here before, if you can cast 80' then you might be able to cast 40' when a good stiff wind is blowing in your face.
Bob
Re: Fly Rod Review: Orvis Helios
Quote:
but, truthfully, how many trout or bass did you take, last season that required you to cast 80 to 90 feet, on each and every cast!?
To be honest, I don't recall ever catching a fish over 60' away let alone over 90'. I will cast that far on the lawn and occassionally at the lake, but I don't really ever fish that far away. Never seen a need for it.
Jeff
Re: Fly Rod Review: Orvis Helios
(getting up on the soap box):
I'm not willing to give ANY 'new' rod the benefit of the claim that it is 'better' or that it will 'cast farther'.
Just because it's 'new' or 'different' for some reason doesn't automatically mean that you or I can cast 'farther' with it.
I can cast 80 feet now, with a rod I already have.
I can cast 40 feet into a stiff breeze with a rod I currently own.
I've seen the video of a fellow (kind of well known around here) casting a fly line with a broomstick. I watched another casting instructor type casting a fly line with a piece of bamboo from someones yard with guides and a reel taped to it.
It's not the stick, it's the operator.
While I understand that rod manufacturers 'think' all this 'new and improved' stuff matters, it really doesn't make ANY difference out on the stream, river, or lake.
If you can cast, you can cast. You can't 'buy' casting proficiency, you have to 'learn' it.
If you can catch fish, you can catch fish. You can't buy the ability to catch more fish, you have to gain the experience by DOING it.
If you already have a fly rod, then spending that $800 on taking more time to actually FISH will do more for your fish catching abiltiy than any rod or other piece of gear will do.
If you need a new rod, buy one. But no fly rod available today is 'improved' enough to make someone who isn't a good caster into someone who is. No fly rod available today will make someone who has trouble catching fish into someone who doesn't.
It's not about the gear, it's about knowing 'how'.
(climbing down off thesoap box now).
Good Luck!
Buddy
Re: Fly Rod Review: Orvis Helios
Didn't I read somewhere that these first ones for $750+ was a limited thing. Maybe I just dreamed that :lol:
Anyway, I have one of the first T3's....Love it, then one of the first Trout Bums....Love it, then the Zero...Love it too. But I also have a LT and a BII and I love them.
It all depends on HOW IT FEELS TO YOU! and in my case, what mood I am in, he, he, he.
If that Winston feels so right then so be it and so on down the rod making line.
The Helios feels that good...to me.
Heck, I know people that still swear by their Wally World rod.
Buddy quote:If you need a new rod, buy one. But no fly rod available today is 'improved' enough to make someone who isn't a good caster into someone who is. No fly rod available today will make someone who has trouble catching fish into someone who doesn't.
I can't totally agree with this. I do agree that it is up to the person, but a good stick can and will make a difference. I have seen it and experienced it. I am not saying it has to be a high priced thing, but if it is just right it can make a difference. I started with a "POOL STICK" so to speak and now have progressed to the whippy feel and I will say my casting improved 100 percent.
Now, A good caster can cast anything, I will agree.
Re: Fly Rod Review: Orvis Helios
Here's the thing. I've never owned a rod I spent more than $200 on (fished a few, but never owned one). But, and this is a big one, I also sell rods for a living; and what I have noticed is a lot of people have to spend a bunch of money before they BELIEVE in the equipment they buy (we sell $400 baitcasters and $600 spinning reels, too, so it's not just us fly guys and gals). It's a proven fact that you will catch more fish with equipment you believe in than you will equipment you doubt, because you will fish more confidently and hence more effectively than otherwise. Rods are like money itself that way; it's only worth what it's worth because we believe it is. In the end it comes down to this-- what do you need to have in order to have an enjoyable trip? That answer will be slightly different for each of us, hence the presence of $50 rods, $5000 rods, and everything in between.