So...bass flies for the bass that eat plastic worms...

You're getting a lot of good advice here on flies, but I would add that technique is also going to be a consideration here. I think you were dead on when you said you needed to slow down and fish lighter weighted flies. Whatever fly you choose, it should fall slowly, move as much as possible on the fall (marabou, rabbit fur, etc. moves a lot even when the fly is stationary or falling) and you should be able to retrieve it slooooowlly. These don't sound like fish that are used to chasing their food. That you are catching big cats, but not bass, is interesting. Bass are on the menu for big cats so your bass may be holding on ambush points towards the bottom trying to stay out of the way of cruising catfish. Just my thoughts on a few possibilities.

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Originally Posted by louisianajeff

There is just something about that damned plastic worm that I can't reproduce. Anyone got any advice?

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No fly will ever match the feel (and oftentimes the smell) of a plastic worm. That's why it's the best bass catcher of all time.

Just give in and throw an actual plastic worm with your fly rod, ala Tom Nixon and Jack Ellis.

You can throw a plastic bait on a fly rod (I've done it occasionally for whites as well as largemouths). However, and Ellis has mentioned this in at least one of his books, you have to be careful the bass doesn't have a chance to get the worm too deep before you know he is there. You don't have the same connection to the lure that you have with a spinning rod or baitcaster. The new organic plastic substitutes make this an even bigger issue since the scent and texture cues are more convincing and the bass is more likely to swallow first and ask questions later. because of that, I tend to back away from plastics. Unless, of course, nothing else is working :?

I have an observation to share. You mentioned that topwater was out, the bass werent hitting on top at this time of the year. I have found when that to be the case, you will have a hard time duplicating the success of a spin fisherman. More to the point, you seem frustrated at your lack of success compared to theirs.....you have to remember your comparing apples to oranges. If it is a competition, switch to your spinning rod! Im certainly not admonishing you for it, when I go out with my buddies, there is a certain competitve nature to it. But the satisfaction of landing A bass with your fly rod (on less than ideal topwater conditions where a fly rod is superior to spinning) is what your game is about. To the spin fisherman, its about numbers and pounds. Two different mindsets!

I have a dear friend who is an excellent bass fisherman in Virginia. He takes me out to private ponds where he can land as many bass as he wants with soft plastics. When he is out with his other buddies, that is what the game is, how many and how large. But when its he and I, he switches it up to the fly rod and it becomes a much harder game. Again, especially when they arent hitting on top. And he appreciates each one he catches that much more.

One day he grew frustrated without landing anything and switched backed, where he started to of course catch lots of bass. I continued with my conehead muddler for another 30 minutes when he started to give me the "c'mon, the fly isnt working today, just switch it up" My persistence paid off when I finally landed a 3lb'er. Not a huge bass, but a huge accomplishment. I had to catch one, then I went to the spinning rod.

There are days and conditions when a fly rod will be superior to a spinning outfit, but that is the exception not the rule. My opinion only, hope it helps

Chuck

Another good fly is the shoe lace fly. Tie a shoe lace onto a hook, then tie a small piece of closed cell foam on the tail end. This causes the tail to float as its hopped across the bottom. Oh, weight the nose end so it sits nose down on the bottom, just like a plastic worm Texas-rigged.

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Originally Posted by rrhyne56

Another good fly is the shoe lace fly. Tie a shoe lace onto a hook, then tie a small piece of closed cell foam on the tail end. This causes the tail to float as its hopped across the bottom. Oh, weight the nose end so it sits nose down on the bottom, just like a plastic worm Texas-rigged.

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I like that idea. Unconventional. Although I'm likely to use all my shoelaces and not have any shoes to wear if it works, heh. All of my ceilling fans are stuck on high because I used all the bead chain for dragon nymphs (i blame the bluegills) :shock:


Thanks for the advice guys.

to Cheli, I know I am comparing apples to oranges, but you have to understand that my family is the kind that gets in fights over Candyland. Ive seen many a chutes and ladders game get 'palmed', heh. we are extremely competitive. oh, and also we never seem to get many bass on topwater for some reason. *shrug*

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Originally Posted by Bluegill222

You're getting a lot of good advice here on flies, but I would add that technique is also going to be a consideration here. I think you were dead on when you said you needed to slow down and fish lighter weighted flies. Whatever fly you choose, it should fall slowly, move as much as possible on the fall (marabou, rabbit fur, etc. moves a lot even when the fly is stationary or falling) and you should be able to retrieve it slooooowlly. These don't sound like fish that are used to chasing their food. That you are catching big cats, but not bass, is interesting. Bass are on the menu for big cats so your bass may be holding on ambush points towards the bottom trying to stay out of the way of cruising catfish. Just my thoughts on a few possibilities.

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You are probably right about the cats. These lakes are strange because they are full of big alligators, alligator gars and choupique(bowfin to the non-cajuns)

http://www.louisianaseafood.com/spec...ges/bowfin.jpg

i couldnt find a good picture of it but they have loads of sharp teeth. ours tend to be in the 12lb range.

between those big predators, the snapping turtles, herons, kingfishers, and cormorants, bass are pretty far down on the food chain. they tend to be really spooky.

in any case, thanks for the replies guys, I've got some tying to do before my trip to the lake today. Ill try some of everything mentioned here and see what happens. I may even fish plastic on the fly

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Originally Posted by Bluegill222

However, and Ellis has mentioned this in at least one of his books, you have to be careful the bass doesn't have a chance to get the worm too deep before you know he is there. You don't have the same connection to the lure that you have with a spinning rod or baitcaster.

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Yes, that was in "The Sunfishes", his first book. He noticed that problem with sinking lines. He switched to fishing the worm on a floating line in "Bassin' with a Fly Rod", and the problem went away.

There are two things that significantly separate the plastic worm from our 'flies' when bass fishing.

Everyone want's to point to the 'feel' of a plastic bait. We cant' do anything about it, but THAT doesn't matter, even a little, because the bass can't 'feel' the worm until it strikes it. The 'texture' of the worm is a non issue, as it has NOTHING to do with getting the bass to strike in the first place. (makes the fish 'hold' the bait, but we ought to be good enough at this to 'feel' a fish).

What REALLY matters with a soft plastic bait is it's 'action' in the water. How it 'moves' is the first thing that 'matters' for our purposes. Can we make a fly that 'moves' like a worm. Of course we can. We have to disregard how the worm 'looks' and understand that it's a matter of the ratio between stiffness and 'give' which causes a plastic worm to move in the water the way it does. Lots of fly tying materials will do this. Bucktail is one of the best, many of the synthetics also will flex and move with water resistance in similar ways to a soft plastic bait. We CAN do this part, and pretty easily.

The hard part is the 'weight' thing. The true 'secret' to success for most soft plastic fishermen is the amazing combination between the soft plastic lure and the WEIGHT that the fisherman uses. This causes all kinds of 'good' things as far as attracting a bass goes. Slows down the bait AND speeds it up, makes it fall with all kinds of built in action, keeps the bait closer to the botom, and lets the fisherman stay more closely in contact with the lure. How much weight, where you place it, and how you 'move' the lure can be combined to give a simple plastic worm dozens of differing and effective 'actions'.

VERY hard to do with a fly. You can add weight to a fly, and it will do something, but if you want it to do something different, you have to tie another fly or add weight ahead of it. And, there are limits to how much weight you can throw with a fly rod.

We can compete when the spinning guys are fishing unweighted worms and the bite is on the fall OR the retrieve. We can compete pretty well when they are splitshotting. A sinking line will let us catch the same fish as the carolina rig guys in waters to around 12 feet deep. But we are out of our element if they are using a 1/8 to 1/4 ounce or heavier slip sinker texas rigged to get a quick vertical fall, hopping the bait, or fishing deep water. A fly just won't fall like that, the line has too much drag, and we can't cast enough weight.

We have to understand the limits of our chosen tackle.

One other thing. Remember that if you want to catch the same fish the guy using soft plastic is catching, you need to 'move' your fly the same way. Many conventional tackle guys work a worm by 'pulling' or 'lifting' it along with the rod. Stripping the line in with your hand won't get the same 'action' from your fly.

As far as 'which' flies goes, I've done really well with bass on in these situations with Clousers tied in worm colors, and with Semi-Seal leeches. Both 'move' like plastics in the water (look nothing like a worm, but that doesn't matter). I tie lots of each with different weights, different weight locations, and differing levels of materials (sparser/fuller ties) to let me get different actions in the water.

No easy answers to this one.

Good Luck!

Buddy

Jeff,

There is a worm fly Scott Sanchez came up with to try to mimick rubber worms. It was in an article in Fly Tyer, I'll try to dig it up once I get home. From what I remember, the fly was pretty simple. He took a rabbit pelt, coated the skin side of it with a thin layer of silicone and once it dried, cut it into zonker strips to use for his work flies.

I have not tried this fly but I thought it was a creative way of mimicking plastic worms.

Regards,

Alberto

I always keep 3-4? worms in my vest and use them with my fly rod for bass whenever the situation dictates. I hook them wacky style and once casted out I very slowly pull in your line as it falls to keep it some what taunt so that you can feel a pick up. If there is no strike on the fall I strip the line in little at a time in a jerky motion. The worm will wiggle each time you jerk the in line being that its hook in the middle. Split shots can be used depending on the depth. I?ve used this method many time for bass and just started using it for steelhead. The typical colors for bass and pink for steelhead. Some of the puritans may frown on this but it works.