Shooting Head weight for an 8wt LC-13.

I just started messing around with shooting heads on my eight weight. I bought 30' of LC-13 and got some running line. I have read alot, spooled it up and took it out to the lawn to get the feel for it. 30' was way to heavy for the 8wt so I cut down 3' to make it 27'(351grains). I read that you should not go below 27' because the line will "dump" at the end of the foward cast. Can someone explain dumping to me? I am had trouble with the weight of the head..the rod is like a stick in the mud and the head will collapse on itself on the foward cast. I found my 8wt can handle that much. I cut it down to 25' (325grains) and it feels better can cast about 60'-70' with it but I have to do what I found out is called a belgian cast. It still feels really overloaded. This is my first time trying out any sort of shooting head. Is the rod supposed to feel very overloaded with them? Was it a bad idea to cut it down to 25'? I think that 22' (286grains) would be perfect but don't want to go too short if the "dump" is as bad as it sounds. Any ballpark weight for 8wts? and last in my long list of questions what is a good leader length for heads like this? Sorry about all the questions, figured I would ask here because they seem to be used more in salt but I just wanted to have a spool ready in case I get out of town or get into a situation where it would work well.
Thanks,
Janus

janus

you dont have to cut it---just pull some back in the guides---every rod (and person) will be different---there will be a magic spot in the line that you must find and the rod will work at its best---when you find it mark it somehow---i wind a lump in the line with a fly tying bobbin so i can feel it across my stripping finger---also its best to cast over water and you will see how much line you have to strip in before you can pull it out for your next backcast---dont try and carry a lot of line false casting either---less is more---pick it out and shoot with just one false cast to get a little more line speed

mike

First!!! Quit reading! Nothing can mess you up more than reading about fly casting. Take a real hard look at the leader you are using. Longer, heavier,, mess with it some. You need a leader on the end. 60 or 70 feet cast? You are carrying the whole 'head' out of the rod tip? How much of it? How much can you 'shoot'?

Thanks guys.... it's a 25' lead core head weighs 325 grains sinks at 8.5" per second.I'm shooting 35-40' of thin shooting line.The head is attached to the running line with a loop to loop 50lb braided mono connection. Loop connection needs to be outside the tip for me to shoot the line... no false casting one sidecast with haul back... overhand foward haul and let it rip. I'm still trying to figure out mechanics wise but when it clicks it makes sense. I still think I'm overloading with the weight. Haven't taken to the water yet but getting it to break the surface tension on the pickup for recasting will be another challenge..maybe a roll cast to get it up?
Janus

A line will start to start to fall to the ground about when it has completed unrolling. A shorter head will unroll sooner than a longer head. With the high line speed generated with thin shooting heads like LC13, the head may finish unrolling and kick over very quickly, which is described by some as "dumping".

I use LC13 shooting head frequently, and for me 27 ft is optimum with my 8wt rods. This will seem to heavy at first, but as you gain experience you will begin to get more comfortable. The 25' you are trying is about the same weight as false casting 45 feet of a WF8F line, but the mass is concentrated in about half the length so it feels quite different. I do slow my casting stroke down a bit compared to using a full length line, and open the loop a bit, but not too much. I when I am dialed in, the thing just sails out there. If I'm not, it gets ugly.

I also find it much easier to cast these rigs on the water. Strip in about half the head, roll cast to the surface then backcast, shoot out the full head only and lay on the surface, quickly pick up into the back cast and make a normal presentation cast.

Thanks I have been working on it.I have found that the most effective cast for me is more of a "lob". My 8wts are all medium action so it seems to make it harder to carry 27' at that weight I cut down to 23.5" (305grains) and it's great but is unrolling before it's finished but it's not a drastic dump. I am going to try some T-11 because the same weight in T-11 would be 27.5 feet...
Thanks for the info.
Janus