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Large arbor vs backing
Rather than highjack the thread about large arbor reels let me ask .....
What is the difference between buying a regular arbor reel and filling it with backing....
or buying a large arbor and being able to add less backing??????
weight????....suspect the differences would cancel?
Yes, if you get into the backing... pickup would change as you get deeper into the backing but in the large arbor you wouldn't even be able to get to that backing.
I guess I'm dumb and just don't understand the physics :roll:
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I think the whole deal is in the rate of line retrieval, the large arbor picking up the line quicker. If a person never gets a fish on the reel then the type of reel does not matter.
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Gardenfish....
""Give me ambiguity or give me something else"
I'm thinking maybe that's where we are.....it seems to me the rates of pickup are the same....by filling the spool with backing aren't we just creating a large arbor??????
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Two reels, one of large arbor and one of small arbor, of equal diameter and spool width will have the same retrieval rate (assuming same line), except small arbor reel will hold more backing.
Two reels of equal diameter, wider larger arbor model and narrower small arbor, the wide arbor will maintain a higher retrieve rate as more line is off the reel. You will also get more consistant drag pressure.
By going to a large diameter, wider reel, you can make a larger arbor and retain the same backing capacity as a narrower small arbor reel.
Sometimes you just don't need that extra backing that you may get with a small arbor. I have too reels each 4.5" in diameter. One is a large arbor model and the other is a small arbor. The large arbor is wider. Both hold 450 yards of backing. If I get 3 or 4 hundred yards into the backing, I'd rather be cranking it from the large arbor reel where the diameter of the line on the reel well remain larger. Fewer cranks need. Take the dimensions of the larger arbor and apply to a small arbor reel and it would hold a lot more backing that I don't need - and don't wan't to spend money for which is a factor in my big game reels where I us gel spun backing which is expensive.
Also, as you wind line on the spool, it creates pressure on the spool wall. The deeper the line, the more the pressure. Making larger diameter, wider spool, for a given amount of line, the depth of line on the spool will be less and the resulting pressure thus less. A reel designer can take advantage of this and make the spool walls thinner and thus the spool lighter.
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ducksterman, there is no point if one reel simply holds less backing than the other. In order to enjoy all the benefits of a "true" large arbor reel, the outside diameter of the spool must be significantly larger.
For example, compare the Orvis Battenkill Bar Stock III reel to the Orvis Battenkill large Arbor III reel. Both reels are designed to hold 5-6 wt. lines, yet the Battenkill Bar Stock reel has a standard-sized spool that only measures 3" in diameter, which is typical of a trout-sized reel. The Battenkill Large Arbor III reel, in contrast, has a spool with an outside diameter of 3 3/4" -- it is that increase in the outside diameter of the spool that provides the cited advantage in line retrieval rates.
-- Mike
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I was about to reply to tailingloop with this....
I think I follow you but perhaps we should just talk about the same diameter reels?
Then Hairstacker came on and...I think he confirms ....in thinking of large arbor etc. I guess I've just assumed comparing same diameter reels...probably too simplistic....
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Given two reels of same diameter, one wider than the other, the wider one will have some advantages.
If you pull X amount of line off of both reels, the depth of the line , D , on the spool with respect to the axis of rotation (center of the spindle) will decrease faster on the narrower reel. As this distance D decreases, it takes more pressure to pull line against the drag (even though you didn't change the drag setting on the reel). So, for instance, if you take 100 feet of line off of both reels, the increase in force required to pull line against the drag will be higher on the narrow reel. D will not decrease as much on the wide reel, so the force required to pull line against the drag will remain closer to the force required when all the line was on the reel - thus the drag will remain more consistant as line goes out compared to the narrow reel. Also, if one rotation of the spool on the narrow reel will take up less line than on the wide reel.
Now I haven't even discussed the arbor size yet - because arbor size really doesn't factor into retreive rate or drag consistancy. If you increase arbor size , you do reduce backing capacity. But often this capacity is not needed. By incorporating a larger arbor you can also reduce the weight of the reel, though only some designers do this.
When most people talk about 'true' large arbor reels, they are referring to larger diameter, wider reels as compared to reels traditionally used for a particular line weight as in the example Hairstacker gave. These reels incorporate a larger arbor to save weight and eliminate the need to spool up with backing that will never be used.
When I shop for a reel, I look at diameter, width, backing capacity and cost. Sometimes I end up with a large arbor and sometimes a small arbor reel. More often than not, it is a large arbor reels because I prefer the benefits of large diameter, wide spool reel and most such reels today have large arbors.
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Tailingloop's first sentence answers the question.
LA reels are just another option, not an answer.
To get the max benefit from LA reels, you would need to choose the largest model that balances on your rod. But how many of us want to mount a saucer-sized reel on our 5wt?
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I'm sure a Large arbor fills a need for some anglers. For me, I don't want a clunky looking over size reel on my rod. If I needed faster retrieval I'd buy a multiplier.
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[quote="tailingloop"]
Sometimes you just don't need that extra backing that you may get with a small arbor. I have too reels each 4.5" in diameter. One is a large arbor model and the other is a small arbor. The large arbor is wider. Both hold 450 yards of backing. If I get 3 or 4 hundred yards into the backing, I'd rather be cranking it from the large arbor reel where the diameter of the line on the reel well remain larger. Fewer cranks need. Take the dimensions of the larger arbor and apply to a small arbor reel and it would hold a lot more backing that I don't need - and don't wan't to spend money for which is a factor in my big game reels where I us gel spun backing which is expensive.
Man you get that far into backing, I would be saying goodbye to line and fish. Past the point of return :D
I like the TRADITIONAL on my Bamboo and glass for the above note, they LOOK better. But I have several LA's (and mids) for my use all the time rods. Even have a LA I on my 2wt. Comes in real handy when that fish decides to swim toward you.
The Orvis LA hold very little backing compared to others (around 50yrds) but the idea of bringing in almost a foot of line each turn is sweet.
As far as the ORVIS mid arbor, they are a little heavier than the LA right out of the box, add more backing and then the line, they are definitly heavier than an LA. This doesn't really matter to me in most cases cause I use them on a 6wt. But, I stll love tha LA.
My BBS V is a big traditional, but very light. Granted I put 100's of yrds of backing on it, I got what figures out to be a light LA, but have more than 50yrds of backing to play with for those STEELIES.