Thorax Tied Drie

:?:
I'm interested in learning to tie flies like those described in Castwell's series "Flies Only" on this site.
I understand that the hackle has to be tied in an "X" pattern, but I've not been able to do it so that the hackle looks right. I can tell by the pictures that the hackle isn't tied in the manner of "x" winding that seperates wings. It looks like the hackle is wound from the back of the wing to the front of the thorax and then from the front of the wing to the back of the thorax.
Sounds like the easiest thing to do, but by God it's not!
My problem is the hackle slips off the thorax, ending up pretty much like a conventionally tied fly.
I figure the thorax has to be oversize, compared to Catskill type dries. But I haven't had any luck getting it right!
Does anyone here tie ths fly? HELP!

Thanks, Charlie

Gnat:

The style was created by Vince Marinaro and if you want to broaden your horizons, buy/read both of his books:

A Modern Dry Fly Code and In the Ring of the Rise.

There are descriptions of tying a thorax fly, Vince's way in the books.

You also should be able to find some instructions on the net if you Google "Marinaro Thorax Dry Fly". There also was an article in the Spring 2001 issue of Fly Tyer titled Revisiting Marinaro's Thorax Dun by Tom Fuller.

The bottom line is you use two hackles; one a size smaller for the hook you are using. The long fibered hackle gets started in front of the wing and is wrapped about two or three turns around the hook with the wraps IN FRONT of the wing on the top of the hook and BEHIND the wing on the bottom of the hook shank with each wrap. This places the hackle on an angle.

The shorter fibered hackle is started behind the wing and is wrapped about two or three turns around the hook with the wraps BEHIND the wings ON TOP of the hook shank and IN FRONT of the wing on the BOTTOM of the hook shank with each wrap. Again this puts the hackle on an angle.

The result is the characteristic X of Vince's design. It sounds more complicated than it is. The trick is two hackles, two different sizes, tied on an angle, opposite to one another.

Although two hackles were in the original recipe I believe Vince Marinaro himself said if you could find a hackle of suitable length one would suffice. With todays hackle length is usually not a problem.
Tie in your hackle behind and at the base of the wing and dub a small but very tight ball at the base of the wing with half the ball in front and half in back. I prefer synthetic dubbing for this as it seems to make for a better anchor for the hackle. Wind the hackle diagonally you want it to sort of wedge in the corner where the dubbing ball ends. Two turns front to back two turns back to front. Hope this helps. If this seems confusing let me know and I'll try to explain it in a different way. By the way this style of fly is my absolute favorite.
Turk

Thanks to both of you. Sounds like I'm on the right track, just need to tweek my technique (go ahead and shoot me for that). :lol:

I'll try the two hackle method first. On my first half dozen tries I used one hackle and the crossover from front wrap to back wrap was not pretty!

I'll try to borrow A Modern Dry Fly Code and In the Ring of the Rise from my local library. They will search other libraries from around the country if need be. Oh heck, my birthday's comming up in December and Christmass is soon to follow...I've already asked for a copy of The Fly Tyers Benchside Reference...but what the hey...Amazon.com is only a click away (ok, so I'm sick).

Turk, thanks for letting me know you like this style of fly. Makes me think that putting in the effort will be worth it.

This is an awfully long post but I have one other question. Have you tied an Adams this way? That's my most productive dry.

Again, thanks. Charlie.

I've tied this fly in just about every color combo there is including an Adams variation. Marinaro believes the color is not as important as the wing profile and the light pattern created by the hackle. I don't think differnt color combo's would hurt and if you like to tie a lot like I do then tie a bunch of variations. Yes it is worth the effort.
Turk

The key to not having the hackle slip is to build up dubbing ball, if you will, both just behind and in front of the wings.