Orvis does it again

I thought this is pretty big:

Orvis has just pulled the curtain up on their new lineup of rods for 2010: the Hydros . Perhaps sensing that the economy is not quite what it once was, the boys from Manchester have made a series of very good decisions to essentially bring the popular Helios into reach of the masses. The new rods will cost $495 for all freshwater models and $525 for all saltwater models. They are going to be available in every weight class that Helios comes in, with the exception of the switch rods. According to Orvis' Tom Rosenbauer, they're built on the exact same tapering and scrim technology as the Helios rods, with many of the exact same mandrels used as forms.

How has Orvis managed to cut almost $200 off the price? By eliminating a lot of the Ferrari-level jewelry (bringing this baby more into the Cadillac class). The Hydros rods will not sport REC's Recoil guides (the flexible, bounce-back ones), nor will they have as light a reel seat. The male ends of the ferrules are unpainted (actually a feature, not a bug--unpainted ferrules seat more securely). The rods will come with a traditional Cordura-covered tube rather than a woven graphite model. Due to the hardware changes, the rods will be slightly heavier--more akin to the premium models offered by other companies. Interestingly, they will be available October 15; well in time for Christmas.

In short, to offer a little editorial, this is still a premium rod. Orvis seems to be filling in a gap in their lineup, offering a $500-class rod with very similar hardware to that offered by other companies, but building on what they believe to be a great blank design (and from what I've heard about Helios sales, the market certainly agrees on that blank). All in all this is a very intelligent move; rather than pushing the price envelope ever further, they are consolidating technological advances and putting more rods in more hands.

zach mathews article is here ;)

http://www.midcurrent.com/news/2009/...-for-2010.html

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Originally Posted by Normand

zach mathews article is here ;)

http://www.midcurrent.com/news/2009/...-for-2010.html

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Sorry Zack. I did quote , but didn't put the author. My Bad, just excited about the news.

Very informative--thanks for the heads-up.

Whenever I read or hear about the new and improved gear for the new year, the terms "sliced bread" and "marketing" come to mind. Convince us that we need new crap to replace the perfectly good old crap that we are currently using. Or in this case, not as good a crap as it could be but we realize that $700 crap is out of hand, possibly because we aren't selling as much of it as we thought we could convince people they needed.

I like to think I am wise enough to know I don't need a $500 rod. Even though there are a couple collecting dust in the closet.

I do own a knife which can be used to slice bread, however.

I look at it this way DG. It might not be you or me that buys that rod (or any other new and improved rod). It might be a young fly fisher that is ready to get a little bit better rod and reel because he might need one, wants one, can finally afford one, or has cast it and just fell in love with the way it performs. Who are we to judge (I'm not saying you're judging anyone). If it didn't come down to gimmicks, marketing and the best thing since sliced bread, then most of us would still be fishing bamboo or fiberglass. It's the next phase of evolution for our sport.

I'm sure that these rods are great but I really haven't been able to tell the difference in performance between 40 and 500$ rods in my years and years of fly fishin'. I HAVE noticed that graphite out-performs fibergoass, and that all of them tend to do really poorly against rocks, fire, and car doors.....

But this is just my opinion. Heck, I'm happy fishin with a stck and and a bent needle with some duck feathers wrapped around it.

WOW, what a freaking marketing genius Orvis has!!!! I Guess that 'NEW Coke' guy really gets around. Making a $500 rod and using the cheapest hardware? Now THATS a way make and sell an alleged quality product!

They must have saved a whopping TEN dollars in production cost by not using the ReCOIL guides on the $700 rod. And to think ReCOIL guides are not even the most expensive guides on the market.

10 min of research turned up this from MudHole.com. These are just the snake guides (no stripping guides) but it's enough to show just how little the cost of guides affects the cost of a rod. And these are Retail prices, I'm sure a company like Orvis can buy from REC at a much cheaper price we can, but the ratio between guides should be about the same.

Consider this:
American Tackle----Stainless snakes $.59 to $.63 each, TiChrome $1.97 to $2.54 each (the range in ATC prices are for sizes 6 to 2/0)
Pacific Bay----Chrome $.95 each, TiChrome $2.95 each
ReCOIL----$2.28 each

Any rod builders should agree that the general rule of thumb is: Number of guides = rod length(in feet) + 1 (tip top extra) right? +/- a guide is personal preference for ferrule interference (think 3, 4 and 5 piece rods)

So a 9' rod: tip top + 10 guides (1 or 2 of those 10 are strippers). So what? 8 snakes on a 9' rod on average? If so, then:
ATC SS, 8 @ .59 = 4.72
ATC TiChrome,8 @ 1.97 = 15.75 to 8 @ 2.54 = 20.32
Pac Bay chrome 8 @ .95 = 7.60 to 8 @ 2.95 = 23.60
Or ReCOIL 8 @ 2.28 = 18.24

Hmmmm? Let see.
18.24 -vs- 4.72, save 13.52
18.24 -vs- 15.75, save 2.49
18.24 -vs- 20.32, spend 2.08 more
18.24 -vs- 7.60, save 10.64
18.24 -vs- 23.60 ,spend 5.36 more
On a $700 rod the cost difference of guides is so negligible the bean counters wouldn't worry about it.

Oooooh and they didn't paint the ferrule and saved another HUNDRED?? Are they buying their paint made for the ISS?? Here's a thought! Maybe they should NOT paint the Orvis name and logo. THAT in itself adds TWO hundred to the retail. Now we're down to a $199 rod. At that you can safely bet they STILL have a 50% profit margin.

Carbon fiber is carbon fiber. The only difference in carbon fiber scrim is the density (grams/meter^2), resin content and tightness of weave. In layman's terms, this combination is what differentiates IM6, IM7, IM8 etc. Every blank producer has there own formula's to produced their 'unique' product.

"...they're built on the exact same tapering and scrim technology as the Helios rods, with many of the exact same mandrels used as forms." WTF??? if all this is the same and they are only saving a FEW bucks on cheaper hardware? If this doesn't tell you how that $700 rod was already SEVERAL hundred dollars overpriced you need to get back on your short yellow bus and go home!

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Originally Posted by Daniel J

I'm sure that these rods are great but I really haven't been able to tell the difference in performance between 40 and 500$ rods in my years and years of fly fishin'. I HAVE noticed that graphite out-performs fibergoass, and that all of them tend to do really poorly against rocks, fire, and car doors.....

But this is just my opinion. Heck, I'm happy fishin with a stck and and a bent needle with some duck feathers wrapped around it.

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http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s...y_laughing.gif

I do feel that fiberglass, in certain conditions, is a better material than graphite....just my opinion.

bobbyg

I agree with Bass Bug. Good job BassBug-