Spine and Guide placement

I need some help on building my first rod -- a 4 piece 6 wt kit from Hook and Hackle.

I am using a book by Art Scheck as a guide on how to build the rod. I have determined the spine. Scheck says to place the guides on the spine. Hook and Hackle says to place them on the opposite side of the spine. I have already cemented to seat with the hood aligned to the spine. I have not placed the guides.

I imagine I can still place the guides on the opposite side ofthe spine and not have any real negative effect.

Also, alot of the guides fall on or near the ferrels when I use the H&H placement dimensions. Any suggestions.

Thank you.

Orthoman

Since you have allready glued on the reel seat you will have to put the guides on the spines so that the reel will align with them. As to your second question, you can move the guides as needed. It's best to tape them on and make adjustments from the guidelines from H and H as needed anyway. I would suggest that you stop work on the rod for a bit and carefully read Al Campbell's rod building instructions. They can be found under features in the menu at the left. they may help you with things your not clear on from the book.

Chris; I think we must have been typing at the same time.


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all leaders tangle; mine are just better at it than most. Jim



[This message has been edited by rainbowchaser (edited 08 January 2006).]

I've read Al's articles. He has done a tremendous job. Part of the problem, is that the more I read the more confused I get. I'm not sure which one is right.

Why couln't I just rotate the 3 forward sections 180 degrees so that the guides are now placed on the opposite side of the spine. The butt section with the reel seat doesn't flex that much.

Just a thought.

In a perfect world, perfect blanks would be perfectly symetrical. They are not. Blanks will have a side which is a bit stiffer than the rest of the blank. Is is important that the casting stroke be on axis with this spine. You could imagine that if the spine was , say , 30 degrees off, the rod would tend to pull the cast off to one side.
Should you place the guides on the spine or opposite? As you have found out there are differing oppinions. I have done it both ways, and I believe either will be just fine. In one, the rod is just a bit stiffer on the back cast, in the other the rod is just a bit stiffer on the forward cast. Either way it is pretty subtle, and you will never know which it is by casting.
I would continue to place the guides in the orientation that you have placed the reel seat. On your next rod you can do it the other way arround. I bet you will be unimpressed by the difference.
AgMD

This topic is always a can of worms. There are a lot of opinions out there and everyone is naturally right - just ask them.

I once asked a panel of "experts". This was a group of designers from different rod manufacturers. What the correct method was and received five completely different answers!

As long as you are in-line with the spine you should be OK. I have heard opinions otherwise, but I have also observed Ocean Fishermen return from fighting big Tuna with rods that are either exploded or twisted in a spiral due the guides being out of line with the spine.

I figure I never know when I might hook that five-pound Bass with my two weight. I know I?m a dreamer, but just in case. When I build a rod the guides are placed in-line, either on top or underneath the spine.




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Let No One Walk Alone
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Bill

I agree with tyflier, you can rotate the top 3 sections if you want to. It is not crucial that the spine aligns with the spine of the butt section [if you can even locate it]. like you said the butt doesn't flex much any way.
As far as putting them on the spine or opposite I've never really noticed much of a differance. But they DO have to be either on the spine or 180 degrees opposite.

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To fish or not to fish?
What a stupid question.

There is no right or wrong place to position the spine. IMO too many guys writing these books don't understand what causes rod spine and that it has nothing to do with how the rod actually words out on the water.

Once you put guides on a rod and string a ling through it, all fly and spinning rods become stable no matter where you put the spine. The line always seeks the lowest point. No fly rod in the world is ever going to twist or spin on you when you're fighting a fish. The laws of physics prevent this from happening.

I'm happy to see that in later years now more and more of the world's better rod builders are discounting the spine [ONE of the rod building books points this out and shows why spine doesn't matter one single bit].

Sight down the blank and find the straighest plane you can see. Put your guides on this and wrap it up Go fishing. You'll love it!

I can buy a nickels worth of this spine idea, but I still don't understand what I am feeling. Garcia in his video describes two spines on a tip, one that is a little stiffer than the other. I am starting my first rod build and have noticed the same thing. Of course, the larger "bump" is "the spine". Now, when you roll the rod as he describes and you feel "the spine" and can isolate the plane in which it exists, is the thickest section of the rod at the top of the rod or at the bottom of the rod? Or if you stand the section straight up on its tip and push down on it with your finger, the rod will bend with the weakest part of the rod on the concave edge of the blank. Is the stiffest part of the rod, "the spine", on the opposite side, or 90 degrees from the concave edge(and 90 degrees in which direction?)?

I'm not a pro. I'm now on my fifth or sixth rod. If I remember, the bottom "fourth" of the rod, where you've already positioned the reel seat, has no line guides on it. I'd follow the advise above for that bottom "fourth" is almost impossible for a novice like myself to find a spline anyway. Flip the top three sections and go with the flow. Only you will know and the rest of us ain't telling. BTW, relax and have fun with it. Folks tend to put too much worry into it and not enough fun. JGW